Carrier GT-PX 50YDV049 Opinions & Advice

[Moonshine339]

Here's the short and skinny.....

We are at the decision point for our geothermal system. Heating/Cooling energy efficiency is our main goal. This will be a closed vertical loop system for a 3400 sq ft single family dwelling. We've received an affordable quote for the Carrier GT-PX 50YDV049 and a completely unaffordable quote on the WaterFurnace Synergy 3D. While radiant hydronic is currently out of our price range, we would like the ability to add it at a later date. Is there an add-on hydronic unit that can be used in conjunction with the Carrier Unit that would not require additional drilling? Is there a better way to skin this cat at an affordable price? I'm at a loss after spending the weekend researching this and have to admit it's time to ask the subject matter experts. I understand there are a ton of variables not covered in this post but thought keeping it short and simple best. My sincerest thanks in advance for any and all assistance!

Very Respectfully,
LT (ret) USN

[skippedover]

First and foremost is the design of both the HVAC system and the earth coupling. That may involve one company or more than one but make sure the science is put into all calculations. Check for IGSHPA certification on the company doing the earth coupling. For the HVAC system, I'd highly recommend you search for a company with many systems already installed and references from those users and/or NATE certification for HP's.

Okay, now that those issues are out of the way, the earth link should be capable of satisfying the needs of the house to design temperature, whether that's heating or cooling. So if you put in today a water-to-air system, that system is not readily converted to water-to-water. The duct system for water-to-air is of different airflow needs than a duct system for a water-to-water using chilled water for cooling and warm water for heating. The Carrier HP you've suggested is a water-to-air packaged unit.

Water-to-air is typically less costly to install because you don't need the buffer tank and water piping. However, as I'm sure you know, you also cannot run a radiant floor heating system using a water-to-air system.

One thing to keep in mind: There continues to be a Federal Tax CREDIT for the entire cost of the geo installation, including the equipment, earth coupling, ducts, electrical, landscaping, etc. You get 30% of the total installed cost of the job and can take those credits between now and 2016. After 2016 it's gone. So putting in a wet system now might be to your distinct financial advantage. Waiting may raise the costs still higher than what it would actually (after credits) cost today.

Finally, I'd be very suspicious about any quotes when there is a very large disparity between them. It would strike me that either someone made a very big error or more than likely, one of the quoters is inexperienced and is either inflating the quote to cover his tush or is ill informed and his quote is way under priced. Either way, do your homework. Who did a room-by-room ACCA certified Manual 'J' load calculation? Who designed the ducts to Manual 'D'? Who sized the equipment? These systems can be done at some cost but you will be VERY disappointed if you just chase price and don't get all the details straight.

[Moonshine339]

Thanks for the response and the following info might help a bit:

-The company is IGSHPA certified and, for the most part, they have a lock on the area with probably 90% of the installed systems on their books. The reviews are mixed although good for the salesman who came out. Apparently he was a technician for 20 years prior to his switch to sales.

-My thanks as this confirms what I’ve already found. The house is already set up for hydronic baseboard radiator style heat so it’s already zoned and has the manifolds in-place in the basement. I’ve found kits available that would allow me to use the existing pipes, zoning, and manifolds to transition to radiant floor and prefer to use/re-purpose things instead of letting them go to waste. I wasn’t sure if Carrier had a piece of equipment that could be used in conjunction with the GT-PX 50YDV049 or if I’d need to replace the entire unit to transition to hydronic radiant heat. One of the reasons we’ve been looking at the Synergy 3D.

-All over the Tax Credit but the $12-15k difference is just not an option. I hadn’t considered the TCO of waiting so my thanks for pointing out what this stupid Sailor overlooked. ;)

-The affordable quote was done by a salesman who has since left the company. The additional quotes were done by the technician turned salesman. The Manual J and D were done by the current salesman.

Very Respectfully,
LT (Ret) USN

[skippedover]

First, thanks for protecting me and mine during your time in service. It's much appreciated by this citizen.

I'm a little concerned about the statement that the system is set up for baseboard... Does that mean the baseboard is already installed or is the system just roughed in? I ask because it's necessary to know what's installed for baseboard as you'll need some low temperature stuff. Regular high temp baseboard won't cut it with a geo system as the maximum water temperature will be about 120°F, unless you boost it with fossil fuel (good heavens, with a geo system?????) or electric (YIKES again). Otherwise it sound's like you're in good hands. Make sure to dot all your i's and cross all the tee's on guarantees, warranty's and any other thought you can bring to mind. Good luck and thanks again.

[Moonshine339]

The current plan is to remove the baseboards and use the existing zones, manifolds & copper pipe to tie-in pex for radiant floor. The system is only 5 yrs old and in decent shape. That's mostly future stuff as the cost is a bit out of range.

You're very welcome but I maintain anyone can serve, they choose not to. I chose to specifically so others have the choice. It's what makes America the greatest. We are all free to choose and provided we don't infringe on others, we're all the same. None better, none worse. :)

My sincerest thanks for all of your help and God bless.

Very Respectfully,
LT (Ret) USN