Christians

[Dowadudda]

In my life to date, be it in working for, with or knowing as occasional aquaintance, people claiming themselves to be Christian, they just never live up to their Exterior holier than thou rant.

Most of these types can be borderline fanatical when discusion erupts with them about religion, but then, you see they never live up to their own preachings really.

I don't generalize my findings. It's been my factual personal experience with them. I can not take one seriously at face value.

[scrogdog]

You know, there are going to be good cops and bad cops. Good doctors and bad doctors. Good Christians and bad.

What makes you the best you can be? Striving for perfection? Well, that can never be achieved so why do it?

If we can't allow each other to be human beings and make mistakes, I'd say we are in a whole heap of trouble!

[Dowadudda]

Originally posted by scrogdog
You know, there are going to be good cops and bad cops. Good doctors and bad doctors. Good Christians and bad.

What makes you the best you can be? Striving for perfection? Well, that can never be achieved so why do it?

If we can't allow each other to be human beings and make mistakes, I'd say we are in a whole heap of trouble!

Almost every experience of mine, which I would say has been about 100 different people in my adult life who claim to be christians have all been high on the virtue, but little in the way of practicing what they preach. So it seems rather a high number of my experiences were bad cops. Only a handful of good cops.

Were all fallable, and most of us know we can not be perfect but the very thing that gets me about these types is their being so fanatical when in discussion about their beleifs and their arguements for living as a pure a life as one can due to the christian code. But then they go out and do the opposite.

What is that? And why?

[hvacpope]

Dow, I ran into the same thing, the ones that pissed me off the most are the born again type, well let see, you use to do alcohol, drugs, bang every whore,steal from your family and now, 40years later you found Jesus and you are giving me advise.......I let 'em have it, my wife brothers is one of them.

[bootlen]

Yeah, D's, being a Christian does not mean being perfect. It just means being forgiven. It means our eternity is secure. It does not mean we will live up to Jesus' standards. No man (or woman) can.

It DOES mean we are called to try to be holy. Not perfect...holy. To be holy is to be different...not perfect.

I have found it much easier to live up to Christ's expectation of Christians than to non-Christian's expectations of Christians. And the ones who "go off" on you when you make statements like the post above are the ones who are usually trying to meet your expectations and not Jesus' expectations. And everyone fails miserably at both attempts...not because we are not Christians but because we ARE humans and "fall short of the glory of God".

I have been on both sides, D's. I used to have exactly your perspective. But now that I'm saved, OI see things differently and realize that I do not have to live up to anyone's expectations except Jesus'. And He doesn't beat me up when I fail (which is often). Rather, He picks me up, dusts me off, pats me on the rear and says, "Go try again. Only this time, let Me help." He knows my fallability. He knows my weaknesses. But He knows my heart. And the condition of my heart is how I'll be judged, not by my failings. The world judges by successes and failures. God does not.

[2story]

Many D's, what you are seeing is hypocrachy. As a christian I do things that do not line up with my allegiance to Christ. That makes me a hypocrit. My allegiance is to Christ and my (I can only speak for myself) desire is to weed out of my life the things that do not line up with my pledged allegiance. I am in the process of becoming who Christ wants me to be, it is a process, it is not a list of things, it is a relationship. I understand your frustration, understand that I am frustrated when I fail to live up to my "label", the Problem is ME not Christ.

[refrigeration mafia]

I understand what christ was trying to accomplish.

I could never be a christian though. Talk about fallen virtues. If I were to claim to be a christian I would be judgemental, deceitful and arrogant. I am trying to not be any of those things. I'm also trying my best to not be a christian. I'll be a better human being in the long run if I steer clear of christianity.

[Edited by refrigeration mafia on 04-07-2006 at 09:48 AM]

[James 3528]

Originally posted by refrigeration mafia
I understand what christ was trying to accomplish.

I could never be a christian though. Talk about fallen virtues. If I were to claim to be a christian I would be judgemental, deceitful and arrogant. I am trying to not be any of those things. I'm also trying my best to not be a christian.

Well, work on not being stupid and trying to attach a generalization to every Christian

So you are trying to be perfect. Let us know when you accomplish that.

Got news for you. The Church is for sinners and the bible which is mostly a Hebrew writing mentions that. They are sinners just like you.

Are you trying your best not to be a Jews also ?

Try this, just work on being a person that does not publish yourself as such an ass. No one is holding a gun to your head to be a Christian, Muslim or Jew. They all probably would be satisfied if you stayed the way you are.

[refrigeration mafia]

Originally posted by James 3528

Well, work on not being stupid and trying to attach a generalization to every Christian

So you are trying to be perfect. Let us know when you accomplish that.

Got news for you. The Church is for sinners and the bible which is mostly a Hebrew writing mentions that. They are sinners just like you.

Are you trying your best not to be a Jews also ?

Try this, just work on being a person that does not publish yourself as such an ass. No one is holding a gun to your head to be a Christian, Muslim or Jew. They all probably would be satisfied if you stayed the way you are.

Case and point.

I'd rather not associate with people such as yourself James.

[scrogdog]

Dow, I ran into the same thing, the ones that pissed me off the most are the born again type, well let see, you use to do alcohol, drugs, bang every whore,steal from your family and now, 40years later you found Jesus and you are giving me advise.......I let 'em have it, my wife brothers is one of them.

Well, don't get me wrong. Some of the holier-than-thous can be a little aggrevating at times.

Still, this situation seems infinitely preferable than this person *continuing* to be a drinking, whoring thief! Sounds like a win for Christianity to me.

[Dowadudda]

some of you, sound genuine, admit your not perfect and are quite humble of the challengs to live the way is sought out by having Faith. Of any ind for that matter.

But. All too often I notice the lack of some of these characteristics come out when the religious discussions begin with some of these people.

I would give much more credibility, would have possibly been more ensared, convinced and welcomed the thought of having faith had I not seen such an aggressive push, with that lack of humility in the way some want to convince you to live your life that way. It usually the oppostie. They preach all day long, then behind closed doors it's a whole other story. Religion to me in any form it just seems like it is this way with every Denomination.

I have been told many times, I am unfit because I have not accpeted christ. The same people, then go and do such opposite of what they ask me to belive in.

You'll never get anywhere that way.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by refrigeration mafia

Originally posted by James 3528

Well, work on not being stupid and trying to attach a generalization to every Christian

So you are trying to be perfect. Let us know when you accomplish that.

Got news for you. The Church is for sinners and the bible which is mostly a Hebrew writing mentions that. They are sinners just like you.

Are you trying your best not to be a Jews also ?

Try this, just work on being a person that does not publish yourself as such an ass. No one is holding a gun to your head to be a Christian, Muslim or Jew. They all probably would be satisfied if you stayed the way you are.

Case and point.



I'd rather not associate with people such as yourself James. I never said I was a Christian. In fact I asked you about Jews and Muslims. Case in point indeed.

The point is, many people who say they are Christians don't know crap about being one, just like the millions of democrats that can't name the chairman of the party when asked yet say they are democrats. And don't worry, anyone that would generalise like you do about people wouldn't decide about associating with me. I would.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by Dowadudda
some of you, sound genuine, admit your not perfect and are quite humble of the challengs to live the way is sought out by having Faith. Of any ind for that matter.

But. All too often I notice the lack of some of these characteristics come out when the religious discussions begin with some of these people.

I would give much more credibility, would have possibly been more ensared, convinced and welcomed the thought of having faith had I not seen such an aggressive push, with that lack of humility in the way some want to convince you to live your life that way. It usually the oppostie. They preach all day long, then behind closed doors it's a whole other story. Religion to me in any form it just seems like it is this way with every Denomination.

I have been told many times, I am unfit because I have not accpeted christ. The same people, then go and do such opposite of what they ask me to belive in.

You'll never get anywhere that way.

Kinda sounds like you are doing a little preaching of your own. Do you think any of this would apply to Jews, Muslims (which you are surrounded by) or did you just wake up today and decided to preach about just people that say they are Christians? You have kind of changed your tone now from first singling out Christians in the above statement.

I am sure you can go into downtown Detroit and have the Muslims think you are not fit to live with the hogs. What the problem with posting something about that? Not enough Muslims on the forum to offend?

[refrigeration mafia]

Originally posted by James 3528
Are you trying your best not to be a Jews also ?

No one is holding a gun to your head to be a Christian, Muslim or Jew.

Jews don't recruit. It's a genetic thing.

Christians are wanna be jews.

Muslims are anti-jewish, therefore anti-christian.

Jews and Muslims are as demented as Christians. They all come from the same diseased tree. That damn tree needs to be cut down and burned until no trace of it exists anymore.

[Edited by refrigeration mafia on 04-07-2006 at 10:33 AM]

[scrogdog]

That damn tree needs to be cut down and burned until no trace of it exists anymore.

Crusade anyone?

[kim]

You generalized christian haters are in good company. Jesus preached against those people too. They were called pharisees in his day.


Being a christian is in the heart. It is not a coat you can put on. Being a christian means you are moral: You do good because it is the right thing to do.

Many who claim to be christians just want to be in the popular crowd. They would have been at the collisium cheering when the lions attacked the christians because it was the popular thing to do.
Many others are scared of hell and think saying a couple of creeds on Sunday morning will keep them out of hell.

To degrade the greatest philosopher that ever lived, just because of his followers is like saying every graduate of Duke is a racist prone to rape and murder.

Study the philosophy of Jesus and take it to heart. Ignore anybody that says his sins are better than your sins. Better yet do the christian thing and forgive them of their arrogance

[hvacpope]

Originally posted by scrogdog

Dow, I ran into the same thing, the ones that pissed me off the most are the born again type, well let see, you use to do alcohol, drugs, bang every whore,steal from your family and now, 40years later you found Jesus and you are giving me advise.......I let 'em have it, my wife brothers is one of them.

Well, don't get me wrong. Some of the holier-than-thous can be a little aggrevating at times.

Still, this situation seems infinitely preferable than this person *continuing* to be a drinking, whoring thief! Sounds like a win for Christianity to me.

I agree, but dont come barking your bible stuff at me because I like to drink a few beers on a Saturday afternoon, I'm a Christian, I dont go to church and I dont like to be preached.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by refrigeration mafia

Originally posted by James 3528
Are you trying your best not to be a Jews also ?

No one is holding a gun to your head to be a Christian, Muslim or Jew.

Jews don't recruit. It's a genetic thing.

Christians are wanna be jews.

Muslims are anti-jewish, therefore anti-christian.

Jews and Muslims are as demented as Christians. They all come from the same diseased tree. That damn tree needs to be cut down and burned until no trace of it exists anymore.

[Edited by refrigeration mafia on 04-07-2006 at 10:33 AM]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!











Press on, mafia. The only person who thinks your post is right is you.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by kim

Being a christian is in the heart. It is not a coat you can put on. Being a christian means you are moral: You do good because it is the right thing to do.



You just contradicted yourself there, kim. Either it's in your heart or it means you do good.

Christians do good all day long with their hearts in the wrong place. That's the "filthy rags" spoken of.

You are correct in that Christianity is an attitude of the heart. Good works follows. Christianity is not a result of works.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by hvacpope
[B I agree, but dont come barking your bible stuff at me because I like to drink a few beers on a Saturday afternoon, I'm a Christian, I dont go to church and I dont like to be preached. [/B]

Drinking, not going to church, and not liking to be preached at is not an indication you're not a Christian anymore than not drinking, going to church, and enjoying being preached at makes you a Christian.

What it does mean is that you are a disobedient Christian, if indeed you are a Christian.

[coolwhip]

Any belief that gets you through this life is fine with me as long as it doesnt involve hurting, judgeing people, or pushing ones beliefs on another. Those that preach do not know and those that know do not preach. The wise man walks with his head bowed. The spiritual answers always come from within not from without. There are those that seek spiritual guidence in others and they will never find it. They will remain lost. Everyones path is different as are the lessons one must learn in this lifetime. This is a road that each individual walks alone. Each life is unique and no two experience the same identical lessons. Be true to yourself and everything will fall into place. You just need to train yourself to listen.

Not preaching just conversing.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by coolwhip
Any belief that gets you through this life is fine with me as long as it doesnt involve hurting, judgeing people, or pushing ones beliefs on another. Those that preach do not know and those that know do not preach. The wise man walks with his head bowed. The spiritual answers always come from within not from without. There are those that seek spiritual guidence in others and they will never find it. They will remain lost. Everyones path is different as are the lessons one must learn in this lifetime. This is a road that each individual walks alone. Each life is unique and no two experience the same identical lessons. Be true to yourself and everything will fall into place. You just need to train yourself to listen.

Not preaching just conversing.

Not what God said. He commands believers to go to the corners of the earth, preaching and teaching as they go the good news of Jesus Christ.

[jacob perkins]

Originally posted by bootlen

Originally posted by kim

Being a christian is in the heart. It is not a coat you can put on. Being a christian means you are moral: You do good because it is the right thing to do.



You just contradicted yourself there, kim. Either it's in your heart or it means you do good.

Christians do good all day long with their hearts in the wrong place. That's the "filthy rags" spoken of.

You are correct in that Christianity is an attitude of the heart. Good works follows. Christianity is not a result of works.

naw. i see no contridiction there.

I was going to say this ..the only christians I care to be around are the ones who keep it to themselves,unless there is some reason to do otherwise,ie: faced with a situation like being asked to partake in something that they goes against their religion.
That is understandable.Proclaiming some of the other stuff is not. Same as the gay awareness people...I would rather not hear about it.

[jacob perkins]

and this is all dowaddudas fault...he brought it up.

so to be fair,i also cant stand people who do that.

shame on you dowadduda!

[coolwhip]

And this my friend is where all the problems begin. The imposition of ones beliefs on anothers. Certainly, there are ideals which bind us all, such as love, companionship. If we start out building relationships that are comprised of virtues we all need then the universal language of friendship grows. If we start by creating spiritual lines of division, then all is lost. I prefer to seek common ground first and the rest will come in time.

[bootlen]

Hey! I just won the lottery! Winner gets a buck in his pocket anytime he needs it.

It's a guarantee win to all who play.

But I see you don't wanna hear about it.

Suits me.

[MadeinUSA]

Originally posted by Dowadudda
Were all fallable, and most of us know we can not be perfect but the very thing that gets me about these types is their being so fanatical when in discussion about their beleifs and their arguements for living as a pure a life as one can due to the christian code. But then they go out and do the opposite.

What is that? And why? It is because they use their Christianity as a crutch for doing bad things, and thinking they can pray and ask forgiveness for their misdeeds thinking God will forgive them. There are versus in the bible dealing with this very subject where we are told if you practice this way, you are committing a sin, and not seen in Gods eye to be a true Christian.

The truest Christians are the ones who through their actions and good deeds to others show they truly walk the life of what Christianity is all about without being a screaming beat it down your throat bible thumper.

We are taught to spread the word, but there is also a way of spreading the word just in your actions alone without saying anything about religion. Religion is very private and personal to some people, and spreading the word verbally is an art in itself without putting off the person you are witnessing to.

The louder someone I see preach about being a Christian, the higher the red flag goes up for me. Every so called Christian person I have ever seen who draws a bunch of attention to them selves, have turned out to be some of the sorriest people I have ever met.

I am not perfect out here in this forum being I voice my opinion pretty strong on political matters, and should not name call other members here. That is something I need to work on myself.

I do believe in calling a politician for who they are like Hitlary who is a perfect example of the subject matter in my post here of claiming to be a Christian when her actions show a 180 degree opposite character.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by refrigeration mafia

Originally posted by James 3528
Are you trying your best not to be a Jews also ?

No one is holding a gun to your head to be a Christian, Muslim or Jew.

Jews don't recruit. It's a genetic thing.

Christians are wanna be jews.

Muslims are anti-jewish, therefore anti-christian.

Jews and Muslims are as demented as Christians. They all come from the same diseased tree. That damn tree needs to be cut down and burned until no trace of it exists anymore.

[Edited by refrigeration mafia on 04-07-2006 at 10:33 AM]

You took the bait along with people just like you. I set you up to prove that you are far worse than you described Christians to be above and below. Thanks for once again, making me look good.


Originally posted by refrigeration mafia
I understand what christ was trying to accomplish.

I could never be a christian though. Talk about fallen virtues. If I were to claim to be a christian I would be judgemental, deceitful and arrogant. I am trying to not be any of those things. I'm also trying my best to not be a christian. I'll be a better human being in the long run if I steer clear of christianity.

[skrewt]

Originally posted by refrigeration mafia
I understand what christ was trying to accomplish.

I could never be a christian though. Talk about fallen virtues. If I were to claim to be a christian I would be judgemental, deceitful and arrogant. I am trying to not be any of those things. I'm also trying my best to not be a christian. I'll be a better human being in the long run if I steer clear of christianity.

[Edited by refrigeration mafia on 04-07-2006 at 09:48 AM]

It seems you're just like a christian, a normal human being striving to be something better.
You have enough judgement, animosity and arrogance towards christians to fit your own definition of christian.
I'm sorry you have to deal with normal people acting like normal people. It must be really irritating to the truly "holier-than-thou" among us, like you.

[James 3528]

Refer Mafia, 4D's and a few more here should ask their customers if they are Christians and if they say yes, they should part ways with them .

That would be truly living their convictions.

Let's get it started guys. Ask your customers from now on if they are Christians , they hang up on them or walk away from their homes.

[chillbilly]

James, you are as right as rain on this subject.
Christians are being held to a different standard and accused of not being true to their faith because they are fallible. Being Christian is supposed to mean you have Christ with you always and in the process you will achieve God's ultimate grace through trial and tribulation.
And no, that's not an excuse to do wrong, just a part of life and getting to higher ground.
If you are starting a post generalizing about Christians based solely on your own experiences and judging them, aren't you doing and acting exactly the same as those you denounce??

[Dowadudda]

I like money from all denominations. :D.

I just don't get the fact they live one way but preach another. Seems to me it would be a lot of work.

I wasn't denouncing anyone. I did say why I was turned off, but never denounced anyone.

Tisk Tisk Tisk.

As for my customers, well it's not about my personal opinions to them. Most of them don't like me that much in all honesty. But they call still. Cause of one important thing. It gets fixed, the first time, for a good dime.

[Edited by Dowadudda on 04-07-2006 at 09:26 PM]

[chillbilly]

Generalizing again? If it such an affront to your pure principles, why associate with Christians or their money??...unless of course, your religion is money.

[refrigeration mafia]

Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by refrigeration mafia
If I were to claim to be a christian ...

I don't claim to be a christian.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by refrigeration mafia

Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by refrigeration mafia
If I were to claim to be a christian ...

I don't claim to be a christian.

Context is everything

[QUOTE]Originally posted by refrigeration mafia
[B]I understand what christ was trying to accomplish.

I could never be a christian though. Talk about fallen virtues. If I were to claim to be a christian >>>I would be judgemental, deceitful and arrogant.<<<< I am trying to not be any of those things. I'm also trying my best to not be a christian. I'll be a better human being in the long run if I steer clear of christianity.

[Edited by JAMES 3528 on 04-07-2006 at 09:47 PM]

[refrigeration mafia]

Originally posted by James 3528
[/i] >>>I would be judgemental, deceitful and arrogant.<<<<

Obviously you think that I am all of those things and more.

[Dowadudda]

Originally posted by chillbilly
Generalizing again? If it such an affront to your pure principles, why associate with Christians or their money??...unless of course, your religion is money.

you got me. you got me. Money is my religion. Hallow be thy name.

[coldsnap]

Originally posted by refrigeration mafia

Originally posted by James 3528
Are you trying your best not to be a Jews also ?

No one is holding a gun to your head to be a Christian, Muslim or Jew.

Jews don't recruit. It's a genetic thing.

Christians are wanna be jews.

Muslims are anti-jewish, therefore anti-christian.

Jews and Muslims are as demented as Christians. They all come from the same diseased tree. That damn tree needs to be cut down and burned until no trace of it exists anymore.

[Edited by refrigeration mafia on 04-07-2006 at 10:33 AM]
I can predict that no good will come of this, but...."Christians are wanna be Jews"?
Are you serious?
If I understand this, Christians who believe Christ is the the Son of God want to be Jews who don't believe in Him?
I guess millionaires are wanna be bums!

[James 3528]

Originally posted by refrigeration mafia

Originally posted by James 3528
[/i] >>>I would be judgemental, deceitful and arrogant.<<<<

Obviously you think that I am all of those things and more.

Thatta boy, go reward yourself with some devils food cake or something.

[chillbilly]

That's 'hallowed'...not hallow. Now we are getting somewhere. The Lords prayer bludgeoned by a self righteous heathen. That's dangerous territory you're treading on... but hell (no pun intended) blasphemy is no doubt, way too corny for you to believe.

[Dowadudda]

dangerous for who? me? well, I am sittin here waitin for the bolt of lightening to stirke me down. take me.

[refrigeration mafia]

Originally posted by coldsnap
I can predict that no good will come of this, but...."Christians are wanna be Jews"?

Are you serious?

If I understand this, Christians who believe Christ is the the Son of God want to be Jews who don't believe in Him?
I guess millionaires are wanna be bums!

Was GOD rich?

Does GOD want you to be poor?

Why is GOD so obsessed with economics anyways?

[coolwhip]

hallowed
sanctified
hallowed (adj)
holy, sanctified, blessed, consecrated, deified, sacred, revered, respected

If you worship money would your religion be capitolism?

[refrigeration mafia]

Originally posted by coolwhip
If you worship money would your religion be capitolism?

If you live in a christian country that is capitalistic does that mean that you worship money?

[Dowadudda]

coolwhip, you better not hang around me, cause I gather something like a bolt of lightening is gonna hit me soon.

[Dowadudda]

Originally posted by refrigeration mafia

Originally posted by coldsnap
I can predict that no good will come of this, but...."Christians are wanna be Jews"?

Are you serious?

If I understand this, Christians who believe Christ is the the Son of God want to be Jews who don't believe in Him?
I guess millionaires are wanna be bums!

Was GOD rich?

Does GOD want you to be poor?

Why is GOD so obsessed with economics anyways?

The dude had twelve guys waiting on him hand and foot. Cmon, he was loaded. And when I say loaded, it's like Ron White says it. Loooooaaaaaadddeddddddd.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by refrigeration mafia

Originally posted by coldsnap
I can predict that no good will come of this, but...."Christians are wanna be Jews"?

Are you serious?

If I understand this, Christians who believe Christ is the the Son of God want to be Jews who don't believe in Him?
I guess millionaires are wanna be bums!

Was GOD rich?

Does GOD want you to be poor?

Why is GOD so obsessed with economics anyways? God gave us brains.
The rich tend to be smart while the dumb tend to be poor. You go on being poor. It is your calling.

[coldsnap]

Originally posted by refrigeration mafia

Originally posted by coldsnap
I can predict that no good will come of this, but...."Christians are wanna be Jews"?

Are you serious?

If I understand this, Christians who believe Christ is the the Son of God want to be Jews who don't believe in Him?
I guess millionaires are wanna be bums!

Was GOD rich?

Does GOD want you to be poor?

Why is GOD so obsessed with economics anyways?

I'll give you my vote on that one. I'll admit seeing churches more concerned with counting cash than spreading the Word. But as a wise man once said "Being in a Church makes no more of a Christian than being in McDonalds makes you a cheesburger."

[coolwhip]

Being in a Church makes no more of a Christian than being in McDonalds makes you a cheesburger

LOL:D:D:D

[Dowadudda]

you never know. Ronald McDonald could be the new Christ.

[coldsnap]

Well, it would give a new meaning to the phrase "pass the plate!"

[Dowadudda]

Happy Meals are given to those who do saintly deeds.

[coldsnap]

LOL Make mine a Fish Sandwich!

[Dowadudda]

come to think of it, and this may be the consiparacy theorist in me, but. Take a long look at the Shamrock Shake. It's funny how they tie that every year only promotionally during the Saint Patricks day time frame.

I believe Jesus has his hands in this.

[coldsnap]

Come to think of it, how about the McRib! Coincidence? You be the judge.

[Dowadudda]

How dare you. :D

[refrigeration mafia]

Originally posted by Dowadudda
you never know. Ronald McDonald could be the new Christ.

Believers tend to succumb to a kind of mass psychosis. It is theoretically possible that christ could return as Ronald McDonald.



[Edited by refrigeration mafia on 04-08-2006 at 08:44 PM]

[Dowadudda]

you guys are so. hmmm. how do they say. Blasphemous.

In an english accent. "you blashpemer, I strike you down"

[Dowadudda]

and then there I go, again and again, generalizing.


God. I am ashamed of myself.

[coldsnap]

Well, what ever he returns as...I'll be ready. And you can have my boat!

[Dowadudda]

you know. he aint coming back. were so screwed up, he's just gonna start over somewhere else.

[refrigeration mafia]

[Edited by refrigeration mafia on 04-08-2006 at 08:44 PM]

[coldsnap]

Oh Damn!!! That's it! That explains it! GLOBAL WARMING!! He's gonna let us all cook! For years now, HVAC Techs. have been doing the will of God! It all makes sense now!

[Dowadudda]

sum beach. I knew I was doing Godly work.

[refrigeration mafia]

Well I do believe that GOD said to destroy the planet.

[coldsnap]

Don't say that to the Meek. That blows the crap out of the inheritence.

[refrigeration mafia]

Originally posted by coldsnap
Don't say that to the Meek. That blows the crap out of the inheritence.

The whole thing is a mindfuc*. Christ was a king who didn't have any problem accepting riches as a child king, but later goes around and mingles among the poor and tells a rich man that he can't be among the poor unless he gives up his wealth. That kind of inspires the poor to continue being poor, don't you think?

Daddy god loves me, daddy god hates me.

No wonder everyone is so screwed up. Very few will be able too escape the strangle hold on thier mind without help. A battle played out in the heavans up above (Your head).

[Edited by refrigeration mafia on 04-07-2006 at 11:46 PM]

[Shophound]

Originally posted by Dowadudda
In my life to date, be it in working for, with or knowing as occasional aquaintance, people claiming themselves to be Christian, they just never live up to their Exterior holier than thou rant.

Most of these types can be borderline fanatical when discusion erupts with them about religion, but then, you see they never live up to their own preachings really.

I don't generalize my findings. It's been my factual personal experience with them. I can not take one seriously at face value.

Here's my take on it, Dow, having been on both sides of the coin. I was raised non-religious, went on a soul searching binge in my early twenties while doing a stint in the navy, got involved with Christian fundamentalism for a time, and now I'm kinda back where I was before I began that big quest. Main difference is I still believe in God, whereas I was kinda unsettled in that aspect earlier on.

Having experienced a range such as this, my conclusion as to what ails much modern Christian thought and practice is the approach. Folks wanting to live holy but falling all over themselves when they see they can't cut the mustard. This leaves two choices (well, three), either redouble one's efforts, convinced one simply isn't trying hard enough or simply hasn't "got it" yet, blow the whole thing off as a worthless sack of crap, or, or...reevaluate one's entire approach. Maybe it's off despite all the bluster and fury to the contrary (via the pulpit, most commonly).

I took the third option, since I found the first two fruitless. My approach early on was to try to live a Christian life by doing lots of churchy stuff/service and staying away from things that raised the hackles of my fellow fundies. Boy did that make for a hollow spirit and soul. When the inner conflict could no longer be quenched by my own redoubling efforts, I either had to reconsider my approach or dismiss the whole mess outright.

I'll say it like this...most "spirituality" of the American sort I find to be an "outward in" approach. Like painting a decrepit old barn. It may look a little more attractive after slathering on a few coats, but underneath it's still a decrepit old barn...and it's obvious.
The path that makes more sense to me is the "inward out" approach. I somehow think Jesus would agree. I remember reading about the "inner man" in the Bible, how it is the focus of attention rather than the external. The all-too-common approach is to slather on a lot of coats of rules, regulations, standards, etc that somehow will in amalgamation make one "spiritual" or "holy" or whatever term one seeks for an improved human condition.

My two bits, anyway...

[budro]

Originally posted by Dowadudda
people claiming themselves to be Christian, they just never live up to their Exterior holier than thou rant.

Most of these types can be borderline fanatical when discusion erupts with them about religion, but then, you see they never live up to their own preachings really.


My wife and I used to be pretty serious about the "church" scene. I was right hand man to a pastor for quite some time. I'll never forget the gut wrench I fought back for years as I saw people who held high positions do the very things they preached not to do. The worst part about it is most people do not know the word of God. Sure there are a lot of people who know what they have been told the bible says, but don’t know what it says for themselves. I think that’s where a lot of the problem is with the holier than thou rant. If folks would read it for themselves many would be rather disgusted with the warped translations and doctrine adopted by twisting the word. I'm talking about the Greek and Hebrew version as well as the translations in use today. If you believe the word of God and know what it says you'd be hard pressed to find one that follows its teachings.

Look for yourself. How many raise the dead, make enough food for thousands with next to nothing, turn water to wine, walk on water, calm the sea etc etc etc??? All these things Jesus said we would do also and greater things.
I can show you a list of direct commands given that are blatantly ignored, while a host of others are taken as doctrine for the purpose of fulfilling mans desire.
The way I see it is the problem is man wants glory for himself to show himself to be something, rather than striving to show God's glory.

I believe in God and the bible and strive for a life of uprightness before God. I don’t push people to serve God, rather if asked my opinion I will give it and I will always be available to help, hold, serve, give, comfort, strengthen, and defend. I also believe God aint no punk and you only need to ask and He will show you. Faith is a gift to all and once received it can open your eyes.

[chillbilly]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dowadudda
[B]dangerous for who? me? well, I am sittin here waitin for the bolt of lightening to stirke me down. take me.





Oh, you'll be taken sooner or later and you'll have to answer for your mockery.
Someone please bang the gong, his four seconds of foolish face time are enough.

[coldsnap]

Originally posted by refrigeration mafia

Originally posted by coldsnap
Don't say that to the Meek. That blows the crap out of the inheritence.

The whole thing is a mindfuc*. Christ was a king who didn't have any problem accepting riches as a child king, but later goes around and mingles among the poor and tells a rich man that he can't be among the poor unless he gives up his wealth. That kind of inspires the poor to continue being poor, don't you think?

Daddy god loves me, daddy god hates me.

No wonder everyone is so screwed up. Very few will be able too escape the strangle hold on thier mind without help. A battle played out in the heavans up above (Your head).

[Edited by refrigeration mafia on 04-07-2006 at 11:46 PM]

As I recall, Christ was not a Chld king as you described. He never experienced "riches", rarher lived a modest life as a carpenter.

Christ didn't preach against wealth or having wealth. The message is, in my humble translation, when your wealth becomes your idol, then you must make a change. There are many folks that are very very wealthy that live in accordance with the New Testament. Besides, all the wealth on this Earth are but filthy rags to God.

Now, if I could practice what I preach 100% of the time....

[chillbilly]

The whole thing is a mindfuc*. Christ was a king who didn't have any problem accepting riches as a child king, but later goes around and mingles among the poor and tells a rich man that he can't be among the poor unless he gives up his wealth. That kind of inspires the poor to continue being poor, don't you think?
Daddy god loves me, daddy god hates me.
No wonder everyone is so screwed up. Very few will be able too escape the strangle hold on thier mind without help. A battle played out in the heavans up above (Your head).







This is your charachterization of Christ's life?
I can see that you have never taken the time to study Christ or his life.
Christ was given gifts at birth by mystics who observed the phenomena surrounding him and his birth.
He was not wealthy but he was a King.
He was a simple man, according to scripture, who healed the downtrodden and chastised the rich who treated places of worship as markets for profit.
"No wonder everyone is so screwed up"??
Speak for yourself.

[Dowadudda]

Originally posted by chillbilly
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dowadudda
[B]dangerous for who? me? well, I am sittin here waitin for the bolt of lightening to stirke me down. take me.





Oh, you'll be taken sooner or later and you'll have to answer for your mockery.
Someone please bang the gong, his four seconds of foolish face time are enough.

HEY,

THE GONG SHOW. I like it.

Chilly, you know nothing of me, and know nothing of my actions in my life. I'd suggest you judge with facts.

Your being joked with because your being the way you are. Are you that blind we were trying to get a rize from you?

[Dowadudda]

Originally posted by shophound

Originally posted by Dowadudda
In my life to date, be it in working for, with or knowing as occasional aquaintance, people claiming themselves to be Christian, they just never live up to their Exterior holier than thou rant.

Most of these types can be borderline fanatical when discusion erupts with them about religion, but then, you see they never live up to their own preachings really.

I don't generalize my findings. It's been my factual personal experience with them. I can not take one seriously at face value.

Here's my take on it, Dow, having been on both sides of the coin. I was raised non-religious, went on a soul searching binge in my early twenties while doing a stint in the navy, got involved with Christian fundamentalism for a time, and now I'm kinda back where I was before I began that big quest. Main difference is I still believe in God, whereas I was kinda unsettled in that aspect earlier on.

Having experienced a range such as this, my conclusion as to what ails much modern Christian thought and practice is the approach. Folks wanting to live holy but falling all over themselves when they see they can't cut the mustard. This leaves two choices (well, three), either redouble one's efforts, convinced one simply isn't trying hard enough or simply hasn't "got it" yet, blow the whole thing off as a worthless sack of crap, or, or...reevaluate one's entire approach. Maybe it's off despite all the bluster and fury to the contrary (via the pulpit, most commonly).

I took the third option, since I found the first two fruitless. My approach early on was to try to live a Christian life by doing lots of churchy stuff/service and staying away from things that raised the hackles of my fellow fundies. Boy did that make for a hollow spirit and soul. When the inner conflict could no longer be quenched by my own redoubling efforts, I either had to reconsider my approach or dismiss the whole mess outright.

I'll say it like this...most "spirituality" of the American sort I find to be an "outward in" approach. Like painting a decrepit old barn. It may look a little more attractive after slathering on a few coats, but underneath it's still a decrepit old barn...and it's obvious.
The path that makes more sense to me is the "inward out" approach. I somehow think Jesus would agree. I remember reading about the "inner man" in the Bible, how it is the focus of attention rather than the external. The all-too-common approach is to slather on a lot of coats of rules, regulations, standards, etc that somehow will in amalgamation make one "spiritual" or "holy" or whatever term one seeks for an improved human condition.

My two bits, anyway...

We finally I have found someone here who is a man of faith, has common sense and can speak wth out such a fanatical aggressive attitude.

Shophound. I would listen to someone like you. I thought what you wrote was very well spoken.

[chillbilly]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Dowadudda

Chilly, you know nothing of me, and know nothing of my actions in my life. I'd suggest you judge with facts.
Your being joked with because your being the way you are. Are you that blind we were trying to get a rize from you?




You're right. I don't know you. Your website speaks of morals and ethics. Are they not "facts" about you or are they facts about your business only?
Morals, ethics and honesty do not prejudge all Christians as being hypocrites and fakes.

[Shophound]

Originally posted by Dowadudda


We finally I have found someone here who is a man of faith, has common sense and can speak wth out such a fanatical aggressive attitude.

Shophound. I would listen to someone like you. I thought what you wrote was very well spoken.

Dow, thanks for your kind words. I can assure you my present understanding of things spiritual and otherwise did not come easy. I was also one of the arrogant/aggressive ones at the zenith of my fundamentalist involvement. One of the kind you want to go away when they approach you on the street and shove reading material in your face, or the ones that stand on something near a street corner and shout bible verses at passerby. I'm not all that overjoyed to have that as part of my spiritual quest history. But...as I sometimes say, youth is wasted on the young. :D

I mentioned "approach" in my last post, and when one thinks about it, there's a lot covered by that term. One way of looking at it is in regard to "truth". Many throw that word around lightly, others spend their entire lives stumbling over it, yet others have a morbid fear of it.

I suppose one way to explain how I see it is like how we use the term "approach" on a chiller. In this case, we're comparing how close the medium being cooled (most commonly water) "approaches" the temperature of the refrigerant doing the cooling. The more slender this gap is, the more we consider the chiller to be efficient, to be operating as close to "true" efficiency as possible. The refer temp could be seen as the constant, the water temp the variable (although in reality both fluctuate according to load, but the reference appears to be water against refer temp).

So, to construct a loose parallel to the above, I'm the "variable" (water temp) and "truth" is the constant, the object I wish to "approach" to be considered more closely aligned with. Now, risking wordplay, my former "approach", which many others still practice, was to go out with what I THOUGHT was "truth" but was really my own conception of it. The proof of whatever I conceive "truth" to be is how well it plays out in the rough and tumble of the world at large. To the point, many of my conceptions of "truth" did not hold up when carried out into the world. So, I could either tenaciously cling to my "truth", accusing the world of willfully defying what I know MUST be true, or I could actually hold myself still long enough to see what actual "truth" I need to approach.

A brief example, if I may. The past few months I've had to intently learn how the control system for the HVAC systems where I work operate. I went in with my own conception of how I THOUGHT various components/systems worked, only to be humbled by how they ACTUALLY work. Rather than being incensed how wrong I was, I found how it REALLY works to be liberating. It's easier to get it working correctly once you finally get your prejudices out of the way.

In regard to the larger connotation behind "truth", particularly in matters "spiritual", I find it to be a VERY personal experience. Prescribed "truth" blasted out from a pulpit once a week just didn't cut the mustard for me. Going blithely along in a hermetic Christian fundamentalist subculture also was a no-go. What has had the most traction with me is stopping myself so I can get out of the way and let what seems consistently true be my guide. Kind of like the "let go, let God" idea. Again, it's personal. My approach may not be uniformly suitable for someone else. I think that's how it should be, since we each are unique...and that will never change.

[heavenlyair]

You need to stop looking at others and look to youself.

http://www.endtime.com/pdf/proof-endtime.pdf

You might need to do it sooner then you think.

[tonys]

o.k.

girlfriend.

[James 3528]

Originally posted by tonys
o.k.

girlfriend.

I never thought I would see a US Senator pandering to law breaker either in the Capital. But I did. Looks like that old book has a lot of merit to it. China is building a impressive Fleet. Iran just announced they have enriched Uranium. Mark your time Tonys. It's gonna get ugly and you have nowhere to go. LOL but that's alright because you haven't been anywhere either.

[chillbilly]

LOL! As long as 'anywhere' doesn't include the corner drug store.

[tonys]

Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by tonys
o.k.

girlfriend.

I never thought I would see a US Senator pandering to law breaker either in the Capital. But I did. Looks like that old book has a lot of merit to it. China is building a impressive Fleet. Iran just announced they have enriched Uranium. Mark your time Tonys. It's gonna get ugly and you have nowhere to go. LOL but that's alright because you haven't been anywhere either.

so...can I decipher the fact that you are one of those 'end of days' nuttys as well?

wow - there's more than just purse buying on your mind, huh?


...anyhow - if you read my numerous posts on this subject matter (and, I know you have), you would note that I have stated for the nth time already that 'we' need a real statesman here. not the babble for the 6pm news clips.
REAL action.

Lay-it-out in CLEAR DETAIL for both the nutty-Iranians AND the rest of the world to understand (in particular China and Russia)
For example - the US is going to take "the following steps"
1) diplomacy - direct negotiations with the EU (status: done, results: none)
2) UN sanctions (status: in-progress) - we know where this will get the US right? she'll be blamed for 'starving Iranian kids' etc.
3) Blockade the country (i.e. nothing goes in, nothing comes out)
4) BOMB IRAN back into the stone ages (won't be far for them to go)


where's the leadership jimmy, where IS it?

[James 3528]

Why don't you run. Leave your engineering job at Tonka toys and give it a shot.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by James 3528
Why don't you run. Leave your engineering job at Tonka toys and give it a shot.

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

[tonys]

Not a surprise you girls are on the same page.

right, ayatolla-Boots?

[James 3528]

Originally posted by bootlen

Originally posted by James 3528
Why don't you run. Leave your engineering job at Tonka toys and give it a shot.

I was thinking exactly the same thing.

He is the same Donor that last week when the discussion was about the killing of children at Wako Texas on Clinton's watch went on to say how it didn't matter because of their parents faith, then brought up the killing of children in Iraq. Now his solution is to nuke them.

[tonys]

here's the difference, nim-rod:

the religious wackos in Waco didn't want to kill the infidels, just have sex with as many different teenage girls as possible (ya'know, because the 'good book' said so).

the religoius wackos in Iran want to kill the infidels,
and due to the fact that the 'west' is addicted to oil (as our Einstein G'Dub'Ya pointed out), they sit on a significant barganing chip - because we allow it to be one.


is that understood?



Q. how about yet another Ford Mustang Recall, Huh?
...quality, got-ta love it!

[James 3528]

Duh, yeah, lets torch 20 children to keep them from being molested. And that was speculation.

Hey Gomer. The Feds didn't go in based on that and the sheriff said he would go get Koresh. You have an amazing grasp of irrelevant facts while ignoring the gigantic ones. But hey, with injecting irrelevant smarta$ $hit into all your post, why expect anything else?

[tonys]

Love those Fords...

[coolwhip]

What are government did in waco was terrible! Never did hear the truth about what happened there. If they wanted Koresch(?) they could of picked him up when he went into town.

Ruby Ridge was another case that pissed me off!

[James 3528]

Originally posted by tonys
Love those Fords...

Organ stopped, monkey dead.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by tonys
Love those Fords...

Organ stopped, monkey dead.

...and tony the grinder's panties are soiled.

[seatonheating]

Originally posted by bootlen

Originally posted by hvacpope
[B I agree, but dont come barking your bible stuff at me because I like to drink a few beers on a Saturday afternoon, I'm a Christian, I dont go to church and I dont like to be preached.

Drinking, not going to church, and not liking to be preached at is not an indication you're not a Christian anymore than not drinking, going to church, and enjoying being preached at makes you a Christian.

What it does mean is that you are a disobedient Christian, if indeed you are a Christian. [/B]


Life's too short to show obedience to something you can't see, touch, taste, or smell. I have a hard enough time showing that to my wife who I can. Life isn't about obedience to some unseen diety that will never show itself to you. It's about having a conscience, which keeps me from doing wrong. I don't need jesus to know that.

[bootlen]

Really? He's gonna remind you of that one day.

[tonys]

Who's 'he', boots?
your Sky-Daddy?

Life is about being human.

what you choose to beLIEve is your choice.

apparently, 'heaven' is an exclusive club.

sort of like the playboy mansion,
except with a few more losers that sat home on a Sat. night when they were a teenager...

[bootlen]

What was that? A mosquito?

[tonys]

if you only understood, truly understood how much of a dumb-nut you portray yourself to be...truly pitiful.

that previous post on this thread is yet another gem on an ever growing long-list.

[bootlen]

Somebody get the spra...oh, never mind. It's tony.

[skrewt]

Originally posted by tonys
Who's 'he', boots?
your Sky-Daddy?

Life is about being human.

what you choose to beLIEve is your choice.

apparently, 'heaven' is an exclusive club.

sort of like the playboy mansion,
except with a few more losers that sat home on a Sat. night when they were a teenager...


The existence of heaven aside, it seems you have no desire to live life in any meaningful way.
Boink everything you get your hands on, eat and drink to excess? Basically, you only feed your animal needs and everything else be damned.
Is that how you feel life should be lived?

[tonys]

where did you get all that, Mr. tech-check?

[skrewt]

Originally posted by tonys
where did you get all that, Mr. tech-check?


I merely inferred what you implied.

[kim]

Originally posted by bootlen

Originally posted by kim

Being a christian is in the heart. It is not a coat you can put on. Being a christian means you are moral: You do good because it is the right thing to do.



You just contradicted yourself there, kim. Either it's in your heart or it means you do good.

Christians do good all day long with their hearts in the wrong place. That's the "filthy rags" spoken of.

You are correct in that Christianity is an attitude of the heart. Good works follows. Christianity is not a result of works.

I should not let myself be drawn into your diatribe, but I will

Just because you put on your christian coat and act like you are doing good does not make you a christian. You can fool the people around you easily, but you can't fool God. God will look in your heart and see you for the self-rightous person you are.

BTW: I will never take any advise about christianity from a person that puts more stock in the creeds defeloped by his church than in the words of Jesus. I am sure you have even convinced yourself you are a christian. The definition of insanity has to start with beleiving your own lies, and you have swallowed your own crap hook line and sinker.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by kim

Originally posted by bootlen

Originally posted by kim

Being a christian is in the heart. It is not a coat you can put on. Being a christian means you are moral: You do good because it is the right thing to do.



You just contradicted yourself there, kim. Either it's in your heart or it means you do good.

Christians do good all day long with their hearts in the wrong place. That's the "filthy rags" spoken of.

You are correct in that Christianity is an attitude of the heart. Good works follows. Christianity is not a result of works.

I should not let myself be drawn into your diatribe, but I will

Just because you put on your christian coat and act like you are doing good does not make you a christian. You can fool the people around you easily, but you can't fool God. God will look in your heart and see you for the self-rightous person you are.

BTW: I will never take any advise about christianity from a person that puts more stock in the creeds defeloped by his church than in the words of Jesus. I am sure you have even convinced yourself you are a christian. The definition of insanity has to start with beleiving your own lies, and you have swallowed your own crap hook line and sinker.

Oh. Okay.

[samtheman]

Originally posted by bootlen

Originally posted by kim

Originally posted by bootlen

Originally posted by kim

Being a christian is in the heart. It is not a coat you can put on. Being a christian means you are moral: You do good because it is the right thing to do.



You just contradicted yourself there, kim. Either it's in your heart or it means you do good.

Christians do good all day long with their hearts in the wrong place. That's the "filthy rags" spoken of.

You are correct in that Christianity is an attitude of the heart. Good works follows. Christianity is not a result of works.

I should not let myself be drawn into your diatribe, but I will

Just because you put on your christian coat and act like you are doing good does not make you a christian. You can fool the people around you easily, but you can't fool God. God will look in your heart and see you for the self-rightous person you are.

BTW: I will never take any advise about christianity from a person that puts more stock in the creeds defeloped by his church than in the words of Jesus. I am sure you have even convinced yourself you are a christian. The definition of insanity has to start with beleiving your own lies, and you have swallowed your own crap hook line and sinker.

Oh. Okay.

Oh, Okay is the best you can do Bootsie? It's no wonder people here don't take you seriously.

[tonys]

The Ayatollah Boot-Tay is the much needed daily dose of comedic-relief.

...pssst...he doesn't Get It, due to the fact he's a fundamentalist in denial.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by samtheman

Oh. Okay.

Oh, Okay is the best you can do Bootsie? It's no wonder people here don't take you seriously. [/B][/QUOTE]

You obviously have neve tried to have an intelligent discussion with kim on things non-HVAC.

I get the distinct impression there are few people in the world who know more than him on HVAC tech stuff. But just try to maintain a strain of mental cohesiveness with him on other issues while conversing with him. He is totally confused. So I just leave well enough alone.

Thus, "Oh. Okay."

And don't get yer panties in a wad over what I post. Just bring a ladder.

[kim]

It is just that I beleive Jesus preached forgiveness of sins and Bootie doesn't see that in his preaching. A fundamental divide in basic understanding of what it means to be christian.

Bootie is into an orthodox method. He seeks uniformity.
He thinks you have to beleive in all the creeds to be a christian.

The logerhead in this conflict is evident in this thread.
Forgiveness of sins happens in the heart with little external manifestations. True a christian would probably do good works, but the good works do not make him a christian. Many good things can be done by people with alterier motives.
Problem is you can't see what is in a man's heart. You can only hope his actions betray his emotions. If you don't beleive me ask any good poker player. Jesus told us a man's action will betray his heart, but we all know good poker players, lawyers and politicians that very rarely show us their true heart.

[kim]

BTW
I am a tech person not a communications person. I never claimed to be a great orrator. I am also deslexic. Like most deslexics, I have a high IQ but communicate in a backwards fashion. It is not just reversing letters and numbers when we read. It is a hard wiring situation in the brain. We can think outside the box because we are not confined to live in a box. (Most people can't even envision anything outside their little box.)

Take the pros and cons weigh them togather and deslexics are fairly normal.

[tonys]

huh?

or, spelled backwords...


huh?

[bootlen]

Originally posted by kim
It is just that I beleive Jesus preached forgiveness of sins and Bootie doesn't see that in his preaching. A fundamental divide in basic understanding of what it means to be christian.

Bootie is into an orthodox method. He seeks uniformity.
He thinks you have to beleive in all the creeds to be a christian.

The logerhead in this conflict is evident in this thread.
Forgiveness of sins happens in the heart with little external manifestations. True a christian would probably do good works, but the good works do not make him a christian. Many good things can be done by people with alterier motives.
Problem is you can't see what is in a man's heart. You can only hope his actions betray his emotions. If you don't beleive me ask any good poker player. Jesus told us a man's action will betray his heart, but we all know good poker players, lawyers and politicians that very rarely show us their true heart.

See what I mean. He claims to know my thoughts and then rewrites what I post.

Oh. Okay.

[TB]

Dow, I took your first few posts as seriouse, and unfortunately, you're right.

We do tend to be a selfrighteuss bunch, and sooner or later, many of us wake up, and are ashamed.

Of the grupe of people that call themselves 'Christian', some really are, and some are not.

Of those that are Christian- saved, born again Christain- some find it more tollerable to look at your shortcomings, than their own.

Of those that look at their own, some beat themselves up over them, then beat you up to feel better, and some take their own shortcomings to Jesus, who was beaten himself, and died for them.

Of those who take them to Jesus, some trust Him to forgive them and remove them from their character, some trust themselves to remove their own sin, become frustrated that they can't, then beat you up out of their own frustration.

Of those who can't remove their own sin, some deny it's there, Some get tired of trying and finally trust Jesus to remove them.

Of those who trust Jesus to remove their sin, some extend the grace they recieved from Him, to you, because they are vividly aware that His ressurection bought you Life, just as it did them.

Any Christian, can look like any of the above, at any time, because we all tend to forget who we are--sinners saved by grace- in spite of who we are, not because of it.

Our behavior may throw mud on the message, but it dosen't falsify the message.

Many of us refuse to be fallible, but we forget there is only One that is infallible.

If you knew me now, I might be a person you would want to associate with, but I can say with confidence that you definitely would not have chosen to have anything to do with me before Jesus started changing my character. It's a good thing He ain't done yet, cause I still need a lot of changing.

[kim]

Originally posted by bootlen

Originally posted by kim
It is just that I beleive Jesus preached forgiveness of sins and Bootie doesn't see that in his preaching. A fundamental divide in basic understanding of what it means to be christian.

Bootie is into an orthodox method. He seeks uniformity.
He thinks you have to beleive in all the creeds to be a christian.


See what I mean. He claims to know my thoughts and then rewrites what I post.

Oh. Okay.

No I have read your post. Like when you told Wolfdog his does not beleive in Jesus because he does not beleive in a trinity.
Like when you told me that the catholic creeds are more important than the words of Jesus.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by kim

Originally posted by bootlen

Originally posted by kim
It is just that I beleive Jesus preached forgiveness of sins and Bootie doesn't see that in his preaching. A fundamental divide in basic understanding of what it means to be christian.

Bootie is into an orthodox method. He seeks uniformity.
He thinks you have to beleive in all the creeds to be a christian.


See what I mean. He claims to know my thoughts and then rewrites what I post.

Oh. Okay.

No I have read your post. Like when you told Wolfdog his does not beleive in Jesus because he does not beleive in a trinity.
Like when you told me that the catholic creeds are more important than the words of Jesus.

Thank you for proving my point.

I have never even been in a Catholic church. I couldn't tell a catholic creed from a rainbow pike.

Now...what else?

[TB]

catholic 'creed' (Excerpt from the Catholic Catechism


81 "Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."
"and [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching."
82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honoured with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."


A pike looks something like this...>< )))))>

[Edited by TB on 04-24-2006 at 03:52 AM]

[daytonafan]

Originally posted by TB
Dow, I took your first few posts as seriouse, and unfortunately, you're right.

We do tend to be a selfrighteuss bunch, and sooner or later, many of us wake up, and are ashamed.

Of the grupe of people that call themselves 'Christian', some really are, and some are not.

Of those that are Christian- saved, born again Christain- some find it more tollerable to look at your shortcomings, than their own.

Of those that look at their own, some beat themselves up over them, then beat you up to feel better, and some take their own shortcomings to Jesus, who was beaten himself, and died for them.

Of those who take them to Jesus, some trust Him to forgive them and remove them from their character, some trust themselves to remove their own sin, become frustrated that they can't, then beat you up out of their own frustration.

Of those who can't remove their own sin, some deny it's there, Some get tired of trying and finally trust Jesus to remove them.

Of those who trust Jesus to remove their sin, some extend the grace they recieved from Him, to you, because they are vividly aware that His ressurection bought you Life, just as it did them.

Any Christian, can look like any of the above, at any time, because we all tend to forget who we are--sinners saved by grace- in spite of who we are, not because of it.

Our behavior may throw mud on the message, but it dosen't falsify the message.

Many of us refuse to be fallible, but we forget there is only One that is infallible.

If you knew me now, I might be a person you would want to associate with, but I can say with confidence that you definitely would not have chosen to have anything to do with me before Jesus started changing my character. It's a good thing He ain't done yet, cause I still need a lot of changing.

Beautiful. You are the type of person that I admire and respect. This is probably the best post I have ever read. You have put into words what I can't. Good Job!

[kim]

Originally posted by bootlen
[/B]

Thank you for proving my point.

I have never even been in a Catholic church. I couldn't tell a catholic creed from a rainbow pike.

Now...what else? [/B][/QUOTE]

Who developed those creeds you are so proud of?
The counsel of Nicia was a group of catholic bishops. When they could not come to a consensus Augestine(a pagen) dictated the Nicene creed.
I do not have time to look threw all the old post, but you told me I was wrong for holding the Lord's prayer in higher esteem than any of the creeds you hold so dear. How more orthodox can you get than to say the words of men are better than the words of Jesus?
You can claim to not be a catholic, but you fit the description in "Pilgram's Progress"

Deny that you told Wolfy he is not a christian because he does not support your man-made creeds.

[daytonafan]

Who developed those creeds you are so proud of?
The counsel of Nicia was a group of catholic bishops. When they could not come to a consensus Augestine(a pagen) dictated the Nicene creed.
I do not have time to look threw all the old post, but you told me I was wrong for holding the Lord's prayer in higher esteem than any of the creeds you hold so dear. How more orthodox can you get than to say the words of men are better than the words of Jesus?
You can claim to not be a catholic, but you fit the description in "Pilgram's Progress"

Deny that you told Wolfy he is not a christian because he does not support your man-made creeds. [/B][/QUOTE]

Are we bashing Catholics now? How absolutely "Christian of us. This is exactly why I like my religion and my politics seperated.

[bootlen]

Originally posted by kim

Originally posted by bootlen


Thank you for proving my point.

I have never even been in a Catholic church. I couldn't tell a catholic creed from a rainbow pike.

Now...what else? [/B]

Who developed those creeds you are so proud of?
The counsel of Nicia was a group of catholic bishops. When they could not come to a consensus Augestine(a pagen) dictated the Nicene creed.
I do not have time to look threw all the old post, but you told me I was wrong for holding the Lord's prayer in higher esteem than any of the creeds you hold so dear. How more orthodox can you get than to say the words of men are better than the words of Jesus?
You can claim to not be a catholic, but you fit the description in "Pilgram's Progress"

Deny that you told Wolfy he is not a christian because he does not support your man-made creeds. [/B][/QUOTE]

You are freakin' daft. I am NOT Catholic, I don't have a clue what creeds you are talking about.

Kim, go back to school and learn to read.

Criminy!

[kim]

Did I strike a nerve or something?
You are not objecting to being called orthodox. You are objecting because I know you so well.

[TB]

Originally posted by daytonafan
Beautiful ... You have put into words what I can't. Good Job! Thank you, sometimes Jesus does get a word or two in edgewise. :)

[bootlen]

Originally posted by kim
Did I strike a nerve or something?
You are not objecting to being called orthodox. You are objecting because I know you so well.

Oh. Okay.

[TB]

Deleted...


it was a good post while it lasted


:D

[Edited by TB on 04-29-2006 at 04:34 AM]