Need Help - Freon Leak

[njrich50]

In the spring of 2010 we had a new A/C installed with new duct work, etc. Arcoraire R410 system. Ran fine for the 2010 season. The problem started in the 2011 season. When we went to start the A/C up for the 2011 season it would not cool (late June). Called the service company that installed it and was told the unit was low on freon. The service tech spent about 1 hour and was told he added freon and if there was a problem to call back, fine. About six weeks later it would not cool again. Service tech came back and this time was told he found a leak in the suction line up in the attic, fixed the leak and recharged system. Same thing happened again around mid October when the weather was a mix of warm and cool days the A/C was not working again on warm days. The tech came out again poked around and told me it was to cool out and he could not test the system for a leak.

After he left I called the owner of the company and he told me it is to cool outside to test for a leak and he would come out this spring and use a "dye" to find the leak. I do not know anything about this stuff but I know something is not right that a leak cannot be found after 3 visits. I have a wife due to health issues that needs the A/C for cooling and to dehumidify.

Can someone on this forum guide me or help me as to what to do with resolving this problem. We are seniors and again I feel we are getting the run around.

Forgot to add the old unit we had never had freon added or broke down. It was 20 years old. The only reason we replaced it was because the duct work was made of some sort of fiber not sheet metal and basically it was cooling the attic and the blower in the attic had a rusted out hole that leaked in the house.

[tinknocker service tech]

there is no reason they can not do a leak check on your sytem hot or cold
pull out the refrigerant and fill the systen with nitrogen and presureize it to 20 to 400lbs pressure and find the leak
most likely you have a leaking evap coil from all you have said here
call them back and ask then to do a nitrogen leak test and find the leak once and for all
if it is the evap coil like i suspect even tho it will cost you so money ask them to install a uv light because the new coil may be aluminun and it has a tendisy to go micro organisms that a uv light will kill and improve the air quality in the house

[njrich50]

I have 2 service call receipts and one where he said I had leak (suction line) it does say pressure test with nitrogen.

[skippedover]

Leaks can be located in virtuallly any part of the refrigerant circuit. Thus, since some 'leaks' are cured by simply tightening a service valve core and/or the cap over it, it's not uncommon for the first visit to gas 'n go, depending on how much refrigerant actually needs to be added and the age of the system. Unless the tech who comes out actually charged the system when it was installed, there's even the question in one's mind of whether it was ever properly charged.

Now on the second visit, the cheese thickens somewhat and it's time to start performing a leak check. Now the optimist tech who finds a single leak will think he's conquered the problem and he's done. The pessimist tech will hunt for leaks until he's very old and very spindly, just to be sure he hasn't missed anything. The ideal is somewhere in the middle. Apparently you had an optimist and yearn for a pessimist. Luck of the draw. So the company has admitted there's a leak. Could it be that your seasons shifted gears in the fall and the company was tied up doing heating work? To state that they'd be out in the spring to do the search is not a gross inconvenience, or is it? Do you need the AC since you've spoken with the boss? I suspect when winter begins to wane, you'll get a phone call requesting an appointment to address the issue and put it to bed. Remember that the system is in warranty and the company makes zero dollars on warranty calls. That's not a reason to give you short shrift but it may give you some vision on why they don't interrupt a heating call during the heating season (if there is one, it's been nearly AC season all winter where I live in New England this winter) in order to attend to a AC call that won't really help anybody in December.

So be both patient and persistent. When the weather begins to break but it's not yet hot, make a friendly call to the company to inquire when they are planning on coming out to do the leak check and repair, since it's all warranty work. Chances are good that by March they'll be pretty slow in the shop and willing to come out and spend some real time resolving your problem.

Hope that helps. Ciao.

[njrich50]

Thanks for your reply skippedover. Just concerned that this spring (season) we do not get the same repeat of last season. In other words when is "enough is enough".

[JonesHVAC-R]

Thanks for your reply skippedover. Just concerned that this spring (season) we do not get the same repeat of last season. In other words when is "enough is enough".

I would say your third visit was definately enough... No offense to any other comments but as a business owner myself when I see Return Calls for the same thing I tend to get a little angry. I personally pull the technician aside and ask, "Explain to me why I have a customer that we need to visit three times and still haven't rectified the problem?" I would then instruct that technician to take a refrigerant leak detector and go over the whole system. I may have other calls but the fact of the matter is I apparently earned your business and I would like to keep you as a customer. Maybe that is just the way I conduct business... I don't just consider you a customer, I consider you a business friend that we have hopefully created a long term relationship and you can refer me... and whether its warranty work or not your still their customer. Maybe you should stress some of those points, if you haven't already that is, to the owner in your next conversation. There is an old sang in business... "Bad business spreads a lot faster than good business." Good luck in your efforts. :.02:

[catmanacman]

I would ask them to due a isolation leak search it is more work but you do find what component is leaking

[heaterman]

Being that it is Arcoaire which is ICP which is the little brother/cousin what ever of Carrier and their recent coils don't seem to have an issue with leaks, I would lean more toward another faulty braze joint. And attic installs are the worst. At any rate, be polite but persistant and start on them early, March is about right. No need to panic just yet.

[gregp]

know about the rest of you but since this system is in the attic, I would want to take care of the problem now instead of waiting until its hotter than he!!. :.02:

[njrich50]

The evap coil was replaced, had slow leak. Well the second coil had bend fins on both sides plus the tech had a hard time removing the equalizing line from the TXV valve from the old coil (on it) and a heck of time putting it back on in the new coil, tons of brazing he did. At this point I got very uneasy. I asked him this, "the new coil from all looks worst then the old coil you replaced". One answer he gave me was he would straighten out the coil fins and everything will be fine. Plus I never seen so much brazen done on such a small line. Again this is a Arcoaire R410a 3 ton system, new evaprator coil, old TXV valve re-used.

Question is if have another bad coil is there a company that sells top of line evaporator A coil? That will fit in the unit. I made up my mind not to recall this company. If I did not know better I do not think they are very experienced. If push came to shove another handler even. A different brand of course.

[SandShark]

If you have an electric heat air handler, you will have a hard time finding an evaporator coil from another manufacturer that will fit in the same cabinet. If the evaporator coil is in its own cabinet, then the chances are better that you'll find a coil from a different manufacturer that will work. Bent fins can be straightened if they aren't bent all to heck. Sometimes, small brazing jobs can be difficult. I know I've had my share. Hopefully, they got you fixed up and you won't have anymore issues. Good luck.

[catmanacman]

I wonder why they did not order a new expansion valve under warranty

[tinknocker service tech]

i have had a few small lines that were a bear to braze. The larger copper sucks up the heat and the smaller line wont get hot enough
it happens
the coil was defective not the txv even tho i would have installed a new txv doesnt mean a thing just he had to use the old one. May not have been cover since it wasnt defective

they stood behind the job and followed through. Did not shove you asside and forget you either

2 years latter still covering the warrenty on lobor without hassel

stay with the ones that stayed with you.
ask about the bennifits of a uv light for air quility

[SBKold]

For some reason I always have those same bent fins on my coils from the manufacturer in question.

[DLZ Dan]

If he's torching the heck out of it , that makes me think he's not good t it. A 3/8" line should take 10 seconds to braze.