what illegal immigration REALLY is [Archive] - HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air & Refrigeration Discussion

wolfstrike

04-01-2006, 09:43 PM

what illegal immigration REALLY is , is an invading army that is here to plunder our nation.

the Marxists couldn't win by votes, they couldn't win by war, they won because WE ALLOWED people with anti-Constitutional views to enter our government, and they are opening the flood gates to allow an army of a new kind to plunder this nations wealth.

you can post financial statistics , you can post crime statistics, it doesn't matter because you don't understand the truth.

Marxists opened our borders, they have destroyed education , they've filled professional jobs with people who can't read,
they've destroyed the justice system, they destroyed our history,
they've paid themselves with our public money,
they have done everything within their power to sink this country,

why?

because a country where an average citizen has rights, infringes on what they feel is their birthright to live like dictators.

not only does their policy destroy us , but it also destroys them , their policy is self destructive, evil.

80% of the American public is pissed off because the government refuses to obey the public and close the borders ,

and at the very same time,

Marxists are on the Mexican stations telling Mexicans that illegals are being "rounded up" in America so they can create racism.

Bush , Clinton , and all the other SCUM who are occupying our government will all someday stand trial before God for the actions they have made against this Christian country.

2hot2coolme

04-01-2006, 09:52 PM

Yep, this country is goin down the toilet, I give it another 5-10 yrs.

Whatta you do?

James 3528

04-02-2006, 01:30 AM

You can blame the catholic church for most of this. Some of you people just "think" you know what the problem is.

2hot2coolme

04-02-2006, 01:37 AM

Originally posted by James 3528
You can blame the catholic church for most of this. Some of you people just "think" you know what the problem is.

Nah, I just blame all the stupid ass F%&ks that allow all the illegals in this country. I don't think religion has anything to do with it personally, if I did then I'd be thinkin like them terrorists.

Then again I can give 2 Fu$ks.... what happens ...happens.

r404a

04-02-2006, 01:38 AM

James,
Please enlighten us on how the Catholic church has caused this. I am interested in your take on this. I hope it isn't something you heard on Hush Bimbos show.

r404a

James 3528

04-02-2006, 01:44 AM

Provide me with a list of credible news sources to you or better yet buy a news paper or google "catholic church illegal aliens" and read away.

2hot2coolme

04-02-2006, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by James 3528
Provide me with a list of credible news sources to you or better yet buy a news paper or google "catholic church illegal aliens" and read away.

Hmmmm, so is Moses opening the borders to the illegals now?...don't buy it.

Now I know why I stayed outta this area....

r404a

04-02-2006, 01:58 AM

I will give you a list of Non-credible news sources....
Rush Fat-A*&
Mike Savage
Mike Gallager
Rusty Humphries

James 3528

04-02-2006, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by 2hot2coolme

Originally posted by James 3528
Provide me with a list of credible news sources to you or better yet buy a news paper or google "catholic church illegal aliens" and read away.

Hmmmm, so is Moses opening the borders to the illegals now?...don't buy it.

Now I know why I stayed outta this area....

Did you read about the higher ups in the catholic church telling the church to break the immigration laws or are you into not buying facts? Happened in California just a few weeks ago and was all over the news.

The church has lost millions of church goers over the handling of the child molesting issue. These Mexicans are catholics. duh. The catholic church for hundreds of years has made camp in third world countries and among dictators and set up offering plates. They are the bigest property owners in the US next to the government

James 3528

04-02-2006, 03:05 AM

Originally posted by r404a
I will give you a list of Non-credible news sources....
Rush Fat-A*&
Mike Savage
Mike Gallager
Rusty Humphries

I asked you for what you thought was a credible news source. I usually don't waste this much time with someone that can't read and wants enlightenment

2hot2coolme

04-02-2006, 03:15 AM

Well, I was raised as a Catholic and obviously have different beliefs than others do, I don't drag my religion into the immigration topic because I have my own thoughts into this very touchy topic. Granted I don't go to Church every Sunday, haven't gone to church in a long time, that being said, I don't bring religion into any subject or affairs that are goin on. But I can see how there are extreme religeous groups that take these type of things to heart....not me.

James 3528

04-02-2006, 03:25 AM

It is not so much "taking it to heart" as it is restoring there banks accounts after paying out millions and losing thousands of contributors after the molesting issue.

The Vatican knows no borders. The entire world is it's offering plate and it decisions are made away from these shores. It is a governing body as alien as the illegals in theory. The loss of jobs in America is something they could care less about as long as unemployed Americans are replaced with employed Mexican who are Catholic and dropping money in the plates here before they send it back to Mexico where again cousin Jeraldo will make his contribution to the Vatican. It is a win / win thing for them as long as the land scapers stay Mexican

r404a

04-02-2006, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by r404a
I will give you a list of Non-credible news sources....
Rush Fat-A*&
Mike Savage
Mike Gallager
Rusty Humphries

I asked you for what you thought was a credible news source. I usually don't waste this much time with someone that can't read and wants enlightenment

Yeah, I know James, you are soooo much smarter than the average service tech. Credible may be a matter of perspective and I think that the "Beat up the Church bandwagon" is a little full. You really think they need tithe money bad enough to get people to break immigration laws. Guys like you will be the first ones crying about having to pay 4 bucks for a bag of lettuce if they kicked all of the illegals out now. I have been to Georgia, a couple of years ago, and there are more Mexicans there than even North Carolina. Think about it, James.

404

MadeinUSA

04-02-2006, 03:43 AM

Originally posted by r404a
You really think they need tithe money bad enough to get people to break immigration laws.They needed little boys bad enough to break USA laws, so what is the difference. Once you are are the crooked side of the law, you are a crook.

2hot2coolme

04-02-2006, 03:51 AM

I still don't see religion as being a main contributor to this mess, it's been going on for many many years. Are you trying to say that these drug traffickers and nontax paying illigals are contributing to the church? I think not.

Here in the Chicago area it is infested with non-english speaking mexicans that think they own everything and use thier , "no speekit de english" excuse to get away with anything they want.

You know, I'm not that good at speaking my mind on a fukin keyboard, so some things are not coming out like they would if I was talking to you face to face. There's just too much involved that I feel no need to be sitting here typing away.

James 3528

04-02-2006, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by r404a

Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by r404a
I will give you a list of Non-credible news sources....
Rush Fat-A*&
Mike Savage
Mike Gallager
Rusty Humphries

I asked you for what you thought was a credible news source. I usually don't waste this much time with someone that can't read and wants enlightenment

Yeah, I know James, you are soooo much smarter than the average service tech. Credible may be a matter of perspective and I think that the "Beat up the Church bandwagon" is a little full. You really think they need tithe money bad enough to get people to break immigration laws. Guys like you will be the first ones crying about having to pay 4 bucks for a bag of lettuce if they kicked all of the illegals out now. I have been to Georgia, a couple of years ago, and there are more Mexicans there than even North Carolina. Think about it, James.

404

The average tech could of answered the question with out the dodge and the added editorial that basically means nothing except to confirm my point. Think about that ;)

And I can live with out lettuce until we get a few million off welfare and our streets driving when they can't even read.

Who can't live is the doctor killed at the intersection down the street from me last week by a illegal Mexican. One of four US citizens minding their own business and obeying the laws that was killed in my area alone this year. Killed by a illegal with no insurance or license. They may as well been planting a road side bomb as driving one. You and the Pope think about that.

[Edited by JAMES 3528 on 04-02-2006 at 03:59 AM]

James 3528

04-02-2006, 03:57 AM

Originally posted by 2hot2coolme
I still don't see religion as being a main contributor to this mess, it's been going on for many many years. Are you trying to say that these drug traffickers and nontax paying illigals are contributing to the church? I think not.

Here in the Chicago area it is infested with non-english speaking mexicans that think they own everything and use thier , "no speekit de english" excuse to get away with anything they want.

You know, I'm not that good at speaking my mind on a fukin keyboard, so some things are not coming out like they would if I was talking to you face to face. There's just too much involved that I feel no need to be sitting here typing away.

Let's don't expand this to drug traffickers. Just keep this simple. 90% of the people we are talking about are catholics and are here working and taking jobs and they are not just picking lettuce as 404 wants you to believe and we are talking about actions and statements made by the catholic church telling subordinates to break and ignore the laws of this land.

James 3528

04-02-2006, 04:03 AM

Originally posted by madeinusa

Originally posted by r404a
You really think they need tithe money bad enough to get people to break immigration laws.They needed little boys bad enough to break USA laws, so what is the difference. Once you are are the crooked side of the law, you are a crook.

Ouch! but true. Like I said. They own more real-estate than anyone in the country and everyone knows that the Vatican is a modest stone temple with no plumbing. Jesus drank from a wooden cup. I doubt they do there.

MadeinUSA

04-02-2006, 04:13 AM

The big question is, what would it take to set off a major disturbance that gets these low IQ illegal people to try and disrupt commerce which brews into a serious situation, where their survival instincts make them turn to fighting for survival to stay. This is exactly how uprisings start in third world countries, and we are dealing with third world mentality.

The dumb black leaders are already siding with them to stir the pot more, saying how they feel for them. What the hell? Civil rights was not an invasion of our soil by illegals issue. Just goes to show how ignorant people can throw gasoline on a fire to turn it into a roaring inferno.

Congress needs to step up to the plate and declare we already have laws in place to deal with illegals, and we need to enforce them plane and simple. No new laws need to be written. We just need to enforce the existing laws.

skrewt

04-02-2006, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by r404a
I will give you a list of Non-credible news sources....
Rush Fat-A*&
Mike Savage
Mike Gallager
Rusty Humphries

The only difference between the people on this list and the "mainstream" media is that the people on the list admit that what they're telling you is just their opinion of the news.

James 3528

04-02-2006, 04:32 AM

You might also notice I asked him to list what he considered a credible news source and never got an answer.

This is someone that wanted to inform me about the illegal alien issue.

hvacpope

04-02-2006, 09:42 AM

There is nothing new about this issue, we felt the same when Pennsylvania was invaded by dutch immigrants or when New York was taken by the Italians or Boston by the Irish, This country won collapse, we have most of the most talented,smart,brave people living here,we need to stop this influx of illegals now or atleast reduce it to a minimun, the immigration laws need to be changed.

air2spare

04-02-2006, 10:00 AM

at some peoples perceptions.A law is only as effective as societys willingness to obey it. Need an example? If American citizens wouldnt break the law by buying drugs illegally then we would have a problem with drug smuggling. If citizens wouldnt break the law by speeding, we would need cops to write tickets. Now heres the end of this debate.........IF AMERICANS WOULDNT BREAK THE LAW BY HIRING ILLEGALS THEN WE WOULDNT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. We are the problem, not them. We dont support our own laws.

coolwhip

04-02-2006, 10:55 AM

All these mexiscams are out demonstrating because they dont have any jobs. The American tax payers voice is not heard because we are too busy working and chaseing the buck. If we write to are congressmen, are words fall on deaf ears. It wont be long until we are like those koreans in california defending their store against plunder. We have everything too loose so we have to be careful. They have nothing to loose so they can act out with criminal behavior if they so choose.

I feel that James has a valid point. In mexico, you have giant cathedrals and around that is scattered thousands of tin shacks. The church encourages them to breed like rats even though they have to pick through garbage dumps for their next meal.

trane

04-02-2006, 11:07 AM

We need people with a back bone that will do whats right and not fold when they get opposition. Laws are there that would take care of this but we refuse to enforce them.

Interesting read on the church connection James. Here none of the Mexicans go to church but steal from the ones that do while they are gone. There is a small town 30 miles from me that has a hog farm and processing plant which has a large number of Mexicans working. We don't work there very often but the last time we did the home owner told us we could not leave anything outside over night or it would be gone. This may be a common problem for some of you but here it has never been, until the worker from Mexico showed up. They have turned a small country town into a mess with extra police needed and the old residents living in fear. What a shame.

Dowadudda

04-02-2006, 11:37 AM

james, you may have your strong opinions and have done your own research, but nothing makes you superior on your handle of the current situations of this country, no more so than anyone else here.

Yur not as smart and superior as you think you are. Of course, you won't ever admit that, and thats what makes you a gem of this site. The funny thing is, most of take you only at half step. Your hard pressed to find many supporters of your line of thinking.

Dowadudda

04-02-2006, 11:41 AM

What kills me is, these illegal immigrants protesting as if they have the legal right as citizens. Is this not a law being broke. How the heck did they get furnished the same rights as me to protest my government.

As I am saying all over the board. The American government, only enforcing laws they choose is going to sink this ship. It's already set sail.

coolwhip

04-02-2006, 11:59 AM

Great point D4!!

chillerout1

04-02-2006, 12:12 PM

OUr representitves dont represent us they represent the special interest groups .the majority of people want the border closed but the si want to make lots of money so they need border open so they can have cheap labor.liberals want to impeach pres they say he broke law but same liberals want to give amnesty to illegals talk about two faced.Poeple are same way they want border closed but want cheap prices my friend that aint gonna happen as soon as prices go up people will want border open so cheap labor will send prices down if govt would stop corporate corruption it would helpstop some problems.

James 3528

04-02-2006, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Dowadudda
james, you may have your strong opinions and have done your own research, but nothing makes you superior on your handle of the current situations of this country, no more so than anyone else here.

Yur not as smart and superior as you think you are. Of course, you won't ever admit that, and thats what makes you a gem of this site. The funny thing is, most of take you only at half step. Your hard pressed to find many supporters of your line of thinking.

Facts are facts. I never stated I was smarter than you or superior or care to dress you down on this subject like you are trying to do with me now. I know how tender you are and I saw that only a few days ago with Collin when your diaper got soiled.

Find one thing I said on this subject that is not true or shut the hell up about me, Sport. Go ahead. Cut the insults just stick to the facts and give it a shot. I am waiting.

Dowadudda

04-02-2006, 01:14 PM

So. It's a race to the bottom then right? Gotta be.

If you were making 40 bucks an hour, would you buy your toothbrish at Walmart? Maybe. You might just buy an american toothbrush made by some factory in Tennesee where the American way could live on. That house on property where you can raise kids and get them educated and feel safe. Where you can be sure that if your kid comes down with some awful illness or breaks their leg, you can have it taken care of with out risk of losing your life finanncially speaking.

Everyone wants cheap because there broke to begin with because 40 friggen % of your earned income goes to a government who does not represent you, or protect you. I give 40 dollars for every dollar to a government who allows others rights they didn't pay for or get legally, yet expect me to put up with their lack of performanced to provide basic governance and allow me a fair shot.

Where is my friggen chairtable hand out. 40 bucks dude. 40 dollars of every effin dollar, and yet let murderers roam the streets and little girls gte molested from already convicted offenders. Let me see, I am sure we could all come up with many ways how the 40 bucks aint being spent on.

So now. We got friggen illegal immigrants, in plain sight mind you, walking the streets, protesting on american soil about an american law issue, and there not Americans, nor have the legal right to protest. And just what specifically are they protesting. There asking us to allow them to break the mother effin LAW. The law I pay for which is suppose to be enforced.

Everyone this AM on the circuit of shows. All these politicians. No one talked about the basic principles of why this sitatuion has broken down. They just want to write new laws. I sort of shrug and go. What good will it do to enact another law, when it will never be enforced to begin with. Whats the point of having any laws in this country these days.

Dowadudda

04-02-2006, 01:19 PM

The basic problem I am saying is. Laws are not being followed now. So hey here is a fantastic way to make everyone feel great. I'll just wriote another law, to pacify you, but don't worry, we won't enforce them either.

And when the law is enforced, it's conditional. It's not black and white as I feel it should be. Many many people get away with breaking laws, and another guy breaking the same damn law may be penalized much harsher for. It is ridiculous. This is not a democracy. Unfortunately, as far as the rest of the world. This is the closest thing to freedom. But what sucks is, were losing ground fast and if we don't watch it, were going to be a history lesson in some future society, kind ofg like you read and learned about the romans.

Dowadudda

04-02-2006, 01:21 PM

So we turn into a police state, with outragous bull crap ideals. Like the guys wife who went to the grocery store and was arrested. That was what this world we are living in turns into. I have empathy for this person, but can you not see the grocery stores position. They don't know what the hell to do anymore.

James 3528

04-02-2006, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by coolwhip

I feel that James has a valid point. In mexico, you have giant cathedrals and around that is scattered thousands of tin shacks. The church encourages them to breed like rats even though they have to pick through garbage dumps for their next meal.

Thanks, some people have a problem with reality. I have traveled in Central America. This is right on target. Little towns full of dirt poor hispanic people and in the center is a shinning church.

Here is some more good reading about what those churches deliver to the Vatican

A clutch of paragraphs from THE VATICAN BILLIONS by Avro Manhattan:

"The Vatican has large investments with the Rothschilds of Britain, France and America, with the Hambros Bank, with the Credit Suisse in London and Zurich. In the United States it has large investments with the Morgan Bank, the Chase-Manhattan Bank, the First National Bank of New York, the Bankers Trust Company, and others. The Vatican has billions of shares in the most powerful international corporations such as Gulf Oil, Shell, General Motors, Bethlehem Steel, General Electric, International Business Machines, T.W.A., etc. At a conservative estimate, these amount to more than 500 million dollars in the U.S.A. alone.

"In a statement published in connection with a bond prospectus, the Boston archdiocese listed its assets at Six Hundred and Thirty-five Million ($635,891,004), which is 9.9 times its liabilities. This leaves a net worth of Five Hundred and Seventy-one million dollars ($571,704,953). It is not difficult to discover the truly astonishing wealth of the church, once we add the riches of the twenty-eight archdioceses and 122 dioceses of the U.S.A., some of which are even wealthier than that of Boston.

"Some idea of the real estate and other forms of wealth controlled by the Catholic church may be gathered by the remark of a member of the New York Catholic Conference, namely 'that his church probably ranks second only to the United States Government in total annual purchase.' Another statement, made by a nationally syndicated Catholic priest, perhaps is even more telling. 'The Catholic church,' he said, 'must be the biggest corporation in the United States. We have a branch office in every neighborhood. Our assets and real estate holdings must exceed those of Standard Oil, A.T.&T., and U.S. Steel combined. And our roster of dues-paying members must be second only to the tax rolls of the United States Government.'

"The Catholic church, once all her assets have been put together, is the most formidable stockbroker in the world. The Vatican, independently of each successive pope, has been increasingly orientated towards the U.S. The Wall Street Journal said that the Vatican's financial deals in the U.S. alone were so big that very often it sold or bought gold in lots of a million or more dollars at one time.

"The Vatican's treasure of solid gold has been estimated by the United Nations World Magazine to amount to several billion dollars. A large bulk of this is stored in gold ingots with the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank, while banks in England and Switzerland hold the rest. But this is just a small portion of the wealth of the Vatican, which in the U.S. alone, is greater than that of the five wealthiest giant corporations of the country. When to that is added all the real estate, property, stocks and shares abroad, then the staggering accumulation of the wealth of the Catholic church becomes so formidable as to defy any rational assessment.

"The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe. The pope, as the visible ruler of this immense amassment of wealth, is consequently the richest individual of the twentieth century. No one can realistically assess how much he is worth in terms of billions of dollars."

[Edited by JAMES 3528 on 04-02-2006 at 01:25 PM]

Dowadudda

04-02-2006, 01:24 PM

James,

I am tender. Thanks for noticing. :D

Dowadudda

04-02-2006, 01:26 PM

if thats true. seriously. if thats even close to true, they should be destroyed.

James 3528

04-02-2006, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by Dowadudda
James,

I am tender. Thanks for noticing. :D

Nice go at a retort about where I was wrong. But then again, I wasn't so I don't blame you.

Dowadudda

04-02-2006, 01:36 PM

did I say you were wrong, or did I say you think you are always right? You tend to think your right. It comes out in your posts. And that is what I meant to mean.

None of it matters.

The real tradegy is the main issues were talking about here.

I happen to agree with you on a lot of stuff. I am just saying, you tend to think your always correct. I am saying, you can't possibly be right on everything but you don't relent too often.

So. Let me ask you this. Kick my a$$ on my come back but then answer my question here. Aint you the least bit disapointed with whats going on lately about current events and the Bush Administrations stance about this immigration and there take on outsourcing and such.

rob10

04-02-2006, 01:40 PM

He mostly wrong about everything. Rednecks from georgia tend to be that way because of brothers and sisters having kids!!

chillerout1

04-02-2006, 01:55 PM

make the churches pay taxes like everybody else and I bet they would change thier stance on immigration and probably bitrh control dont get me wrong I believe in God but I dont believe in the chuches any more they appear to be more interested in money than saving peoples souls and helping people cut back on the lavish and extravagant houses of worship and put that money to helping the impovereshed people get an education or learn a skill or grow food for themselves and the ones that dont want to learn cut off aid to them.sorry just had to rant a little I am just tired of seeing multimillion dollar churches on prime realestate and knowing that they are not paying property tax on it and the more property they occupy the more in tax I have to pay

James 3528

04-02-2006, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Dowadudda
did I say you were wrong, or did I say you think you are always right? You tend to think your right. It comes out in your posts. And that is what I meant to mean.

Duh...forgive me for trying to look right and communicate facts. I guess I could of smoked a joint and just started typing.

None of it matters.

The real tradegy is the main issues were talking about here.

I happen to agree with you on a lot of stuff. I am just saying, you tend to think your always correct. I am saying, you can't possibly be right on everything but you don't relent too often.

So. Let me ask you this. Kick my a$$ on my come back but then answer my question here. Aint you the least bit disapointed with whats going on lately about current events and the Bush Administrations stance about this immigration and there take on outsourcing and such.

LOL... just like I figured and yes, it is not my point to be wrong when discussing these subjects. Is it yours? That is what separates intelligent people from the Rob10's of the world. Or do you just write what ever feels good?

[Edited by JAMES 3528 on 04-02-2006 at 02:35 PM]

bootlen

04-02-2006, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by chillerout1
make the churches pay taxes like everybody else and I bet they would change thier stance on immigration and probably bitrh control dont get me wrong I believe in God but I dont believe in the chuches any more they appear to be more interested in money than saving peoples souls and helping people cut back on the lavish and extravagant houses of worship and put that money to helping the impovereshed people get an education or learn a skill or grow food for themselves and the ones that dont want to learn cut off aid to them.sorry just had to rant a little I am just tired of seeing multimillion dollar churches on prime realestate and knowing that they are not paying property tax on it and the more property they occupy the more in tax I have to pay

Hate to break it to ya, chiller, but most evangelical churches don't agree with the Catholic Church on this. It is a financial move on the part of the Catholic Church...not a political one as they would have all believe.

Besides, what revenue would be gained by taxing churches would amount to a very small amount.

James 3528

04-02-2006, 02:52 PM

Botlen, I don't agree. The money would be in the billions. The catholic church is the largest real-estate owners in America and a great deal of that has nothing to do with the actual church building. Churches of other denominations are buying up real-estate and removing it from the tax rolls just like the catholics have done. There needs to be a limit to what they can own tax free.

chillerout1

04-02-2006, 03:02 PM

of course it is a financial move for catholic church if you make illegals go home or pay taxes they have no money to give church and I havent done ny research but I can tell you just by what I see every day of church buildings on very high priced real estate it is alot of tax money being taken away but you dont see them building multimillion dollar bldgs in slum areas or building nice shelters there for homeless that are that way because things that are out of their control thats another subject anyway.

coolwhip

04-02-2006, 03:03 PM

I have read several books on this subject and James is correct about the catholic churchs nefarious activities. Its Gods franchise.

James 3528

04-02-2006, 03:41 PM

I hold nothing against the catholic church goers but enough is enough when it comes to Rome deciding who is gonna invade my country. They were wrong handling the child abuse deal and they are wrong on this and it is because they have put money in front of God and this isn't new. Instead of protecting it, they could speak out against it and be the light house beacon for change.

fastfred

04-02-2006, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by coolwhip

I feel that James has a valid point. In mexico, you have giant cathedrals and around that is scattered thousands of tin shacks. The church encourages them to breed like rats even though they have to pick through garbage dumps for their next meal.

Thanks, some people have a problem with reality. I have traveled in Central America. This is right on target. Little towns full of dirt poor hispanic people and in the center is a shinning church.

Here is some more good reading about what those churches deliver to the Vatican

A clutch of paragraphs from THE VATICAN BILLIONS by Avro Manhattan:

"The Vatican has large investments with the Rothschilds of Britain, France and America, with the Hambros Bank, with the Credit Suisse in London and Zurich. In the United States it has large investments with the Morgan Bank, the Chase-Manhattan Bank, the First National Bank of New York, the Bankers Trust Company, and others. The Vatican has billions of shares in the most powerful international corporations such as Gulf Oil, Shell, General Motors, Bethlehem Steel, General Electric, International Business Machines, T.W.A., etc. At a conservative estimate, these amount to more than 500 million dollars in the U.S.A. alone.

"In a statement published in connection with a bond prospectus, the Boston archdiocese listed its assets at Six Hundred and Thirty-five Million ($635,891,004), which is 9.9 times its liabilities. This leaves a net worth of Five Hundred and Seventy-one million dollars ($571,704,953). It is not difficult to discover the truly astonishing wealth of the church, once we add the riches of the twenty-eight archdioceses and 122 dioceses of the U.S.A., some of which are even wealthier than that of Boston.

"Some idea of the real estate and other forms of wealth controlled by the Catholic church may be gathered by the remark of a member of the New York Catholic Conference, namely 'that his church probably ranks second only to the United States Government in total annual purchase.' Another statement, made by a nationally syndicated Catholic priest, perhaps is even more telling. 'The Catholic church,' he said, 'must be the biggest corporation in the United States. We have a branch office in every neighborhood. Our assets and real estate holdings must exceed those of Standard Oil, A.T.&T., and U.S. Steel combined. And our roster of dues-paying members must be second only to the tax rolls of the United States Government.'

"The Catholic church, once all her assets have been put together, is the most formidable stockbroker in the world. The Vatican, independently of each successive pope, has been increasingly orientated towards the U.S. The Wall Street Journal said that the Vatican's financial deals in the U.S. alone were so big that very often it sold or bought gold in lots of a million or more dollars at one time.

"The Vatican's treasure of solid gold has been estimated by the United Nations World Magazine to amount to several billion dollars. A large bulk of this is stored in gold ingots with the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank, while banks in England and Switzerland hold the rest. But this is just a small portion of the wealth of the Vatican, which in the U.S. alone, is greater than that of the five wealthiest giant corporations of the country. When to that is added all the real estate, property, stocks and shares abroad, then the staggering accumulation of the wealth of the Catholic church becomes so formidable as to defy any rational assessment.

"The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator and property owner in existence. She is a greater possessor of material riches than any other single institution, corporation, bank, giant trust, government or state of the whole globe. The pope, as the visible ruler of this immense amassment of wealth, is consequently the richest individual of the twentieth century. No one can realistically assess how much he is worth in terms of billions of dollars."

[Edited by JAMES 3528 on 04-02-2006 at 01:25 PM]

Googled Avro Manhattan + the publisher of his work.

Ozark Books is listing anti-catholic books.

My mother was raised in the Ozarks. She never went to any church that I know of,yet she hated Catholics! Ingrained prejudice? My grandmothers sister was shunned by her family
for marrying a catholic in the 1930's.

If you check the books listed at Ozark Books you will see they are superstition and conspiracy filled. The Ozarks area is an area of extreme protestant (Baptist/evangelical)
bigotry.
Your source is suspect and misleading. As a result the readers here should take the posting with a grain of salt and consider the source.

James 3528

04-02-2006, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by fastfred

Googled Avro Manhattan + the publisher of his work.

Ozark Books is listing anti-catholic books.

My mother was raised in the Ozarks. She never went to any church that I know of,yet she hated Catholics! Ingrained prejudice? My grandmothers sister was shunned by her family
for marrying a catholic in the 1930's.

If you check the books listed at Ozark Books you will see they are superstition and conspiracy filled. The Ozarks area is an area of extreme protestant (Baptist/evangelical)
bigotry.
Your source is suspect and misleading. As a result the readers here should take the posting with a grain of salt and consider the source.

I guess those of us that have traveled to Central America like Coolwhip has mentioned, have contracted with the catholic church, read what the bishop in California (and the position of the church) said on immigration, the choir boys damaged for life that the catholic church tried to cover up and when even caught red handed just moved them, should be taken with a grain of salt also? The point of my post is anti Catholic on this issue...duh. No real revelation with your post there, Sport.

If you don't like the messenger or the author it doesn't debunk the facts. If you want to discredit the content however and convince me other wise, have at it but you have your job cut out for you. I have seen those sparkling catholic churches among the shacks in Central America. I have seen them here in this country. I know they hold vast amounts of property in the US and lobby to influence politics. The question should be why you feel it necessary to defend them when their leaders have blatantly told the church to defy the law of the land?

fastfred

04-02-2006, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by fastfred

Googled Avro Manhattan + the publisher of his work.

Ozark Books is listing anti-catholic books.

My mother was raised in the Ozarks. She never went to any church that I know of,yet she hated Catholics! Ingrained prejudice? My grandmothers sister was shunned by her family
for marrying a catholic in the 1930's.

If you check the books listed at Ozark Books you will see they are superstition and conspiracy filled. The Ozarks area is an area of extreme protestant (Baptist/evangelical)
bigotry.
Your source is suspect and misleading. As a result the readers here should take the posting with a grain of salt and consider the source.

I guess those of us that have traveled to Central America like Coolwhip has mentioned, have contracted with the catholic church, read what the bishop in California (and the position of the church) said on immigration, the choir boys damaged for life that the catholic church tried to cover up and when even caught red handed just moved them, should be taken with a grain of salt also? The point of my post is anti Catholic on this issue...duh. No real revelation with your post there, Sport.

If you don't like the messenger or the author it doesn't debunk the facts. If you want to discredit the content however and convince me other wise, have at it but you have your job cut out for you. I have seen those sparkling catholic churches among the shacks in Central America. I have seen them here in this country. I know they hold vast amounts of property in the US and lobby to influence politics. The question should be why you feel it necessary to defend them when their leaders have blatantly told the church to defy the law of the land?

I was not defending them, I was pointing out your source was suspect and should not necessarily be believed.
I have not engaged in discourse with you for the very reason your last post revealed. It took exactly three post's before you launched into your name juvenile name calling("sport").

This would be "sport" if you were a worthy adversary.
You can always tell an intellectual hvac'er, But Not Much!!
The most appropriate description for you and what you espouse comes from the institution you obviously detest.

James the Pontif
(APR)
He has spoken nothing more need be said.

James 3528

04-02-2006, 04:45 PM

LOL. :D Sport hits a nerve.

hvacpope

04-02-2006, 05:40 PM

how bout we hold the Mexican government accountable for every border jumper, they are profiting from the illegals big time, lets back charge them.
also the US government may be making some $$$ from the wetbacks according to this article.

It's widely been reported that illegal aliens comprise upwards of 27 percent of the US prison and jail population. Immigration and Customs Enforcement and Customs and Border Protection -- two agencies within the Department of Homeland Security -- claim in several reports that they've apprehended over 100,000 criminal aliens whose offenses go far beyond violation of immigration laws and regulations.

Sadly, only about 25 percent of expenses for imprisoning criminal aliens is reimbursed by the federal government to state and local governments. This creates a hardship for taxpayers in states with high incarceration rates for criminal aliens. The proponents of open borders or lax immigration enforcement always point to the benefits derived from illegal immigration such as the amount of taxes they pay into the government system. Evidence, however, exists that refutes those claims. For instance, there is an abundance of anecdotal evidence that suggests a large number of illegal aliens are paid "off-the-books" therefore those wages are not taxed.

The National Research Council has estimated that the net fiscal cost of immigration ranges from $11 billion to $22 billion per year, with most government expenditures on immigrants coming from state and local coffers, while most taxes paid by immigrants who actually do pay taxes go to the federal treasury.

The net deficit is caused by a low level of tax payments by immigrants, because they are disproportionately low-skilled and thus earn low wages, and a higher rate of consumption of government services, both because of their relative poverty and their higher fertility.

This is especially true of illegal immigration. Even though illegal aliens make little use of welfare, from which they are generally barred, the costs of illegal immigration in terms of government expenditures for education, criminal justice, and emergency medical care are significant.

Californian officials have estimated that the net cost to taxpayers in order to provide government services to illegal immigrants approached $3 billion during a single fiscal year. The fact that states must bear the cost of federal failure turns illegal immigration, in effect, into one of the largest unfunded federal mandates existing today.

In addition, according to the Center for Immigration Studies, even with free trade, the United States continues to enjoy a higher real wage than other nations, due to the superiority of US technology. If taken to an extreme and the US removed all barriers to migration, most foreign workers would move to the United States, lured by the higher wages available here; Foreign labor would essentially cease to exist.

However, with all labor now in the United States, the prices of goods would return to their level of self-sufficiency, prior to the opening of trade. That is, perfectly free migration entirely eliminates the gains from trade that US natives had enjoyed. World income rose with the migration, but the natives of foreign countries in this case received more than all of this rise, since the income of US natives declined. With the world's majority of low-wage workers in the US, there would be tremendous damage to free trade and its benefits, with US middle and upper-middle class workers suffering the brunt of declining wages.

The urge for a utopian state of existence and a desire to make all things equal by the American Left has given way to a desire simply to make all things equal sans utopia. In their passion for a neo-Marxist level for the masses, they've decided consciously or subconsciously that if they could not bring the World's population up to the American level of prosperity and wealth, then they will bring US citizens down to the World's level of poverty and misery. For this is a result of seeing free trade as a zero-sum entity, and self-alienation of the American Left from their own country, the USA.

Sources: National Criminal Justice Research Service, Department of Justice, The Center for Immigration Studies, National Institute of Justice

Jim Kouri, CPP is currently fifth vice-president of the National Association of Chiefs of Police. He's former chief at a New York City housing project in Washington Heights nicknamed "Crack City" by reporters covering the drug war in the 1980s. In addition, he served as director of public safety at a New Jersey university and director of security for several major organizations. He's also served on the National Drug Task Force and trained police and security officers throughout the country. He writes for many police and security magazines including Chief of Police, Police Times, The Narc Officer and others, and he's a columnist for TheConservativeVoice.Com, AmericanDaily.Com, MensNewsDaily.Com, MichNews.Com, and he's syndicated by AXcessNews.Com. He's appeared as on-air commentator for over 100 TV and radio news and talk shows including Oprah, McLaughlin Report, CNN Headline News, MTV, Fox News, etc. His book Assume The Position is available at Amazon.Com, Booksamillion.com, and can be ordered at local bookstores. If you wish to sign up for his intelligence reports, write to JimKouriReports@aol.com.. Kouri's own website is located at http://jimkouri.us[/i]

James 3528

04-02-2006, 05:42 PM

That is a good idea also.

coolwhip

04-02-2006, 07:10 PM

I will post the titles of the books I read containing subject matter which applies to this thread and what James is referring to. Its been a while so give me a day or so to find them.

geerair

04-02-2006, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by chillerout1
make the churches pay taxes like everybody else Big mistake. Freedom of religion is one of our most cherished Constitutional rights. Otherwise we might as well be Iran.

geerair

04-02-2006, 07:33 PM

Enforce the already exsisting law against hiring illegals.

Massive fines and jail time levied against those who break this law.

Remove the incentive, end the problem.

hvacpope

04-02-2006, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by geerair
Enforce the already exsisting law against hiring illegals.

Massive fines and jail time levied against those who break this law.

Remove the incentive, end the problem.

I thought you were a hearth bleeding liberal or a Democrat,most be the dark side of the force in getting stronger.

James 3528

04-02-2006, 08:24 PM

Don't wait for liberal democrats to solve the problem. They want to register the mexicans to vote for them. Few years back they were trying to let prisoners vote. Perdy good idea considering most of them would vote democrat

midhvac

04-02-2006, 09:31 PM

It's definitely a bi-partisan issue. The politicians with the courage to do the right thing should be remembered, as should the ones who sell out their country. If they don't have the guts to take a stand now, how tough are they going to be on future illegal border crossings?

bootlen

04-02-2006, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by geerair
Enforce the already exsisting law against hiring illegals.

Massive fines and jail time levied against those who break this law.

Remove the incentive, end the problem.

Okay, geer. Yer scarin' the hell outta me. This post and your previous have us seeing eye-to-eye.

geerair

04-02-2006, 09:38 PM

Originally posted by hvacpope

Originally posted by geerair
Enforce the already exsisting law against hiring illegals.

Massive fines and jail time levied against those who break this law.

Remove the incentive, end the problem.

I thought you were a hearth bleeding liberal or a Democrat,most be the dark side of the force in getting stronger. I'm a pragmatist. Cut off the demand, the supply withers away.

bootlen

04-02-2006, 09:55 PM

Originally posted by coolwhip
I have read several books on this subject and James is correct about the catholic churchs nefarious activities. Its Gods franchise.

Well, that's the point. The figures are nefarious at best. You think they're gonna pay what they would rightfully owe? Not gonna happen, GI. The Catholic Church has connections. They are very well-healed in Congress and in state legislatures, never mind on the local levels. The ones that would take the hit are the small 45 to 2000 member evangelical churches. They operate as one type of entity. The Catholic Church currently operates as that same kind of non-taxable entity. You change the laws to tax churches and the Catholic Church would suddenly change its tax entity to show itself as a type that would show a loss (or at least a break-even) come tax time. They wouldn't mind in the least lying about their financial status. They lied about child molesters, didn't they? Lying to the tax man is accepted by virtually everyone except the tax man.

I've seen what they do here locally on the small scale.

rob10

04-02-2006, 10:20 PM

jayinsc

04-03-2006, 08:00 AM

It's all about money. If the greedy corporate B@$tards can increase profits by utilizing cheap labor, in this country or by outsourcing, they will do it, and have. Corporate greed! All great nations through history have fallen due to their own accord. Hope I'm gone, taking a long dirt nap when this country falls. Untill then, I will support the Crown Royal mfg. business. Have a nice day

James 3528

04-03-2006, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by bootlen

Originally posted by coolwhip
I have read several books on this subject and James is correct about the catholic churchs nefarious activities. Its Gods franchise.

Well, that's the point. The figures are nefarious at best. You think they're gonna pay what they would rightfully owe? Not gonna happen, GI. The Catholic Church has connections. They are very well-healed in Congress and in state legislatures, never mind on the local levels. The ones that would take the hit are the small 45 to 2000 member evangelical churches. They operate as one type of entity. The Catholic Church currently operates as that same kind of non-taxable entity. You change the laws to tax churches and the Catholic Church would suddenly change its tax entity to show itself as a type that would show a loss (or at least a break-even) come tax time. They wouldn't mind in the least lying about their financial status. They lied about child molesters, didn't they? Lying to the tax man is accepted by virtually everyone except the tax man.

I've seen what they do here locally on the small scale.

You are being way too hypothetical here and not going after the offender is the reason we have the illegal immigration problem

bootlen

04-04-2006, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by James 3528

Originally posted by bootlen

I've seen what they do here locally on the small scale.

You are being way too hypothetical here and not going after the offender is the reason we have the illegal immigration problem [/B]

Not hypothetical at all. I have seen what they do locally. They get done what they want done by whatever means necessary. And they get it done not by virtue of being a church or religious organization but for, shall we say, their financial capabilities.

If they do it at the local level, they do it right on up the chain.

skrewt

04-04-2006, 05:58 PM

I have a solution:

1.) Make it illegal to carry more than $100 cash over the border. Anything more gets confiscated.

2.) Impose a tarrif on wiring money to Mexico of 1 to 1.
In other words $100 cost you $100 to wire or transfer.

This will stifle the flow of money to Mexico and reduce the incentive to come here in the first place.

sline-dawg

04-04-2006, 10:05 PM

That is the stupidest thing you have posted to date..... and THAT is saying something.

Booty.... I see your Christian compasion is still right on track....may God bless you..... and I know you think he will.
What now, you have to be an Anglo, non Catholic to make it to the promised land..... Un-believeable man.....

geerair

04-05-2006, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by skrewt
I have a solution:

1.) Make it illegal to carry more than $100 cash over the border. Anything more gets confiscated.You just put thousands of U.S. merchants out of business from Texas to California.

2.) Impose a tarrif on wiring money to Mexico of 1 to 1.
In other words $100 cost you $100 to wire or transfer.You have just wiped out thousands of more U.S. businesses.

This will stifle the flow of money to Mexico and reduce the incentive to come here in the first place.Also stifle the flow of money to U.S. businesses.

Hey, you may have a bright future in the Bush adminstration. They love people with goofy ideas.

r404a

04-05-2006, 12:43 AM

When people like James 71341841414781 and skrew up espouse their political ideas it reminds me of a news report I saw right after the last shuttle came apart back in '03. Some reporter was talking to a guy from some big city and he was a working Joe like the rest of us. Here he is, on national T.V. with a cigarette dangling from his mouth and he looks like a construction worker or something and he is saying "Man, I know it had to be those tiles that did it. It had to be." I am not, in anyway , shape or form making light of that disaster. What I am pointing out is the insanity of the notion that he has ANY idea what caused it. I am sure that if they asked him, he would have an engineered solution for them. James, was that you?

respectfully,

r404a

[Edited by r404a on 04-05-2006 at 12:51 AM]

skrewt

04-05-2006, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by r404a
When people like James 71341841414781 and skrew up espouse their political ideas it reminds me of a news report I saw right after the last shuttle came apart back in '03. Some reporter was talking to a guy from some big city and he was a working Joe like the rest of us. Here he is, on national T.V. with a cigarette dangling from his mouth and he looks like a construction worker or something and he is saying "Man, I know it had to be those tiles that did it. It had to be." I am not, in anyway , shape or form making light of that disaster. What I am pointing out is the insanity of the notion that he has ANY idea what caused it. I am sure that if they asked him, he would have an engineered solution for them. James, was that you?

respectfully,

r404a

[Edited by r404a on 04-05-2006 at 12:51 AM]

Kinda like this post from geer

They go even slower when the rebuilders have no workable plan, are inept and continue to make critical blunders and policy is rigid with little flexibility to meet evolving situations. The Bush administration plan consists of little more than giving speeches and continuing on a path that so far has proven to be disastrous.

The Allies weren't faced with a religiously and tribally divided population and an ever increasing insurgency.

Yes it has worked only if you define worked as chaos if not a strictly defined civil war, sectarian violence, people subject to being blown up, kidnapped or shot every time they set foot out of their houses, a government unable to meet anywhere outside of the green zone, infrastructure still below pre-invasion standards, corruption rampant and a troubling inability of the Iraqis to defend themselves or their country even after years of training and massive amounts of money spent.

The price of your generous mulligan is American lives

Bremer has stated that disbanding the Army and automatically kicking Baathist party members out of office was a mistake.

Rummy and Bush are being punished for a series of disastous blunders and decisions which have led to the chaos and violence we now see in Iraq.

Spying on American citizens is certainly a reduction in Civil liberties and is a direct result of Bush's war. Dissent is imvestigated, phones are tapped contrary to the guarantees enumerated in the Constitution. Bush abhors dissent, particularly dissent that is directed at his Iraq adventure. his administration wiretapped the Quakers for Zeus' sake.

BTW- Tu Quoque arguments sway me very little.

It is a huge factor when you consider that money is being pissed away in a failed effort. I had always heard the conservative mantra was "throwing money at it won't solve the problem." Seems conservatives have conveniently ignored this in regards to Bush's excursion in Iraq.

I can't imagine the effects of a planned, staged withdrawal with an emergency situation force positioned to respond as the need arises could possibly be any worse than staying the Bush course.

Talkin as if he has a clue.

r404a

04-05-2006, 01:33 AM

James 876898866757efehn65782381278 likes to make all of these grandiose claims that he knows what the Pope is doing, harboring illegals and all that. Maybe the Pope has Compassion for those people, what do you think James? I know Michael Savage says that the Catholics are evil, and he has something in common with James. He is a guy who thinks he knows it all.

Respectfully,

r404a

coolwhip

04-05-2006, 06:54 AM

Yeah..the pope goes around demonstrating compassion all the time. Maybe thats why they backed the nazis during world war two.;)

bootlen

04-05-2006, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by sline-dawg

Booty.... I see your Christian compasion is still right on track....may God bless you..... and I know you think he will.
What now, you have to be an Anglo, non Catholic to make it to the promised land..... Un-believeable man.....

Is that what I posted? Read it again. I was speaking of the powers that be in the Catholic Church. There'll be lots of Catholics in eternity.

Why do some people insist on misrepresenting what other people say? I am really curious about that.

coolwhip

04-05-2006, 08:10 AM

Are you kidding? the liberals make it a career thats called social engineering.

James 3528

04-05-2006, 09:23 AM

James 3528

04-05-2006, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by r404a
James 876898866757efehn65782381278 likes to make all of these grandiose claims that he knows what the Pope is doing, harboring illegals and all that. Maybe the Pope has Compassion for those people, what do you think James? I know Michael Savage says that the Catholics are evil, and he has something in common with James. He is a guy who thinks he knows it all.

Respectfully,

r404a

I just look at the facts and the Catholic church has provided them though their own action and words while you try to spin them . I guess you think the moon landing and the Catholic Priest molesting children was a hoax also.

midhvac

04-05-2006, 03:29 PM

This issue has created some really strange bedfellows in congress. Among the supporters, you have the Republicans who appear to be after the future votes of those 11 million illegals.

On the other side you have the Democrats who think they're protecting the poor, downtrodden minorities.

One side appears to be just as disillusioned as the other.

IMHO, the backlash is going to hurt their chances for re-election, and these are not people who were forced to get on a ship and come over here.

Has anyone seen any polls lately showing what the voting public in this country thinks about it? I would think that if I were a politician, I'd be looking at that pretty hard.

coolwhip

04-05-2006, 03:59 PM

How can 11 million illegals vote? also, I believe that 11 mill is a very conservative number. I bet its probably double that.

midhvac

04-05-2006, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by coolwhip
How can 11 million illegals vote? also, I believe that 11 mill is a very conservative number. I bet its probably double that.

They can vote if they're granted citizenship as some of the politicians are hoping for.

I'm wondering what they're basing the 11 million figure on. Is it the annual reduction of the population of Mexico?

Why are there no Taco Bells in Mexico?

Because they might take that run for the border slogan seriously.

sline-dawg

04-05-2006, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by bootlen

Well, that's the point. The figures are nefarious at best. You think they're gonna pay what they would rightfully owe? Not gonna happen, GI. The Catholic Church has connections. They are very well-healed in Congress and in state legislatures, never mind on the local levels. The ones that would take the hit are the small 45 to 2000 member evangelical churches. They operate as one type of entity. The Catholic Church currently operates as that same kind of non-taxable entity. You change the laws to tax churches and the Catholic Church would suddenly change its tax entity to show itself as a type that would show a loss (or at least a break-even) come tax time. They wouldn't mind in the least lying about their financial status. They lied about child molesters, didn't they? Lying to the tax man is accepted by virtually everyone except the tax man.

I've seen what they do here locally on the small scale. [/B]

Well, What the hell you mean by this ????

sline-dawg

04-05-2006, 10:57 PM

he Catholic church gives ANYONE help and guidance.

Your church give help and guidance to those who give the most.

Those peasant that live around the church, or work in the fields are really making the Catholic church the envy of the world financial circles aren't they......That is when their not molesting.....UN_BELIEVABLE MAN......

bootlen

04-06-2006, 07:03 AM

Originally posted by sline-dawg

Originally posted by bootlen

Well, that's the point. The figures are nefarious at best. You think they're gonna pay what they would rightfully owe? Not gonna happen, GI. The Catholic Church has connections. They are very well-healed in Congress and in state legislatures, never mind on the local levels. The ones that would take the hit are the small 45 to 2000 member evangelical churches. They operate as one type of entity. The Catholic Church currently operates as that same kind of non-taxable entity. You change the laws to tax churches and the Catholic Church would suddenly change its tax entity to show itself as a type that would show a loss (or at least a break-even) come tax time. They wouldn't mind in the least lying about their financial status. They lied about child molesters, didn't they? Lying to the tax man is accepted by virtually everyone except the tax man.

I've seen what they do here locally on the small scale.

Well, What the hell you mean by this ????

[/B]

Building a new sanctuary with code violations, etc., but went up very fast with no resistance from the local government.

Personally, I don't have a problem with them, getting past the inspectors because some of the violations were aesthetic issues and the rest pretty much is local code which exceed normal codes. BUT...nobody else was able to get past that crap. At first there was a big bruhaha then it was suddenly quiet. I think you and I both know what happened.

Don't get me wrong. Other entities used monetary influence to get things done also but shame on an institution that skirts the law. It sets a bad example.

Not the first time the Catholic Church made money the grease. Before Luther, they were selling forgiveness. Additionally, they kept Scripture from parishioners using a dead language to hide it. That allowed the C Church to provide theri own interpretation of Scripture rather than allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture.

A lot has indeed changed over the years but some things still pervade.

BTW, you are clueless about my church. But go ahead, sline. It's on you.