Critic My UV light App.

[bluetooth751]

O.K.

I have recently been selling more UV light setups with our highend 2-speed VS systems. I want you guys to tell me if the system I am using actually works. Just want read your thoughts.

Return air Trunk and Branch system designed at a maximum of 700FPM. Ezflex Merv 10 filter installed in the R/A about a foot before the fan coil or furnace horizontal. Sanuvox R4000X/B NS (UV/UVV lamp)installed in the R/A about a foot before the Exflex filter. UV light stays on all the time and the continuois fan speed is set to low on the Evolution Control. R/A velocity approx 300-400fpm on fan low.

Thanks Jeff

[psi freak]

Hi,

I can tell you as per experience UV light really work well. I've installed one on my own system in the house and you can smell the difference right away. Even when the light burn out you notice by the difference in the air smell.

[kmills]

sounds like a great set-up... i would only set a continuous fan at a customer request or for high amounts of airborne particles... reintroducing humidity with continuous fan

[psi freak]

Hi,

I agree with you on that one, but then the UV will have to be connected with the fan or it will burn out very fast with no air flow

[TConnors]

I'm a believer in continuous fan. I started running mine about 6 months or so ago, and seems to have eliminated DSS (from my AC, still get it from my dehumidifier). I have the identical Carrier set-up, fan running 400-600 fpm on low, which is 95% of the time, all year. I think it's better to dry the coil out than to let it stay wet. A dehumidifier takes care of any moisture blown back through the supply.

My only question is wouldn't the location of the UV be better between the filter and coil, rather than before the filter? Killing anything growing on the coil seems the best use for UV. I am also interested to know if it "really" works. Does your UV have PCO involved? Seems that's the only thing that would really change the smell (other than maybe initially eliminating DSS).

[Carnak]

maybe the UV eats the plastic drain pan.

I thought DSS was a heat pump problem

constant fan raises summer RH

[TConnors]

Supposedly the Carrier drain pans are UV stabilized. Not much of the pan shows between the filter and coil anyway (could easily be lined with foil if in doubt), much more a chance of the UV eating the filter (on either side of it).

DSS is a heat pump problem... it is a 2 speed HP with variable speed AH (at least mine is).

I did a test several years ago, before I had a dehumidifier. My RH went up more when my AC was running with no continuous fan, than it did with continuous fan. My logic behind that is, with the continuous fan running, the AC cycled more often resulting in more water being removed. The amount of water left on a coil when the compressor stops is such a small percentage of what gets removed, how much can that really effect RH?

I have a 3 level house, no zoned AC. I find the continuous fan keeps the 3rd floor within 3-4 degrees of the 1st floor. Without the fan running there can be a 10-12 degree difference. At low speed of 500cfm you can not really hear it, and it continually filters at Merv10 (which I am replacing with Honeywell Merv13 next filter change).

Only downside I see is filter needs changing in 6 months rather than 12. And maybe fan wears out faster, but I bought the 10 year warrantee.

[psi freak]

Originally posted by TConnors
Supposedly the Carrier drain pans are UV stabilized. Not much of the pan shows between the filter and coil anyway (could easily be lined with foil if in doubt), much more a chance of the UV eating the filter (on either side of it).

DSS is a heat pump problem... it is a 2 speed HP with variable speed AH (at least mine is).

I did a test several years ago, before I had a dehumidifier. My RH went up more when my AC was running with no continuous fan, than it did with continuous fan. My logic behind that is, with the continuous fan running, the AC cycled more often resulting in more water being removed. The amount of water left on a coil when the compressor stops is such a small percentage of what gets removed, how much can that really effect RH?

I have a 3 level house, no zoned AC. I find the continuous fan keeps the 3rd floor within 3-4 degrees of the 1st floor. Without the fan running there can be a 10-12 degree difference. At low speed of 500cfm you can not really hear it, and it continually filters at Merv10 (which I am replacing with Honeywell Merv13 next filter change).

Only downside I see is filter needs changing in 6 months rather than 12. And maybe fan wears out faster, but I bought the 10 year warrantee.

I believe that first of all the UV would probably not fit between the filter and the coil no space for that depending on the system.

And for the fan continously on make temperature more equal in the house. Mine as been running for 6 years now all year round at high speed. No sign of ware and tare up to now.

[bluetooth751]

The Sanuvox R4000 is an in duct UV light with a j lamp design, air turbulator, and reflector tube. Recommended installation is R/A. It is not a spot UV light like a stick.

I prefer this model because it is less costly to maintain and the warranty is 3 years on the bulb and 5 years on all parts. I don't have to replace the bulb and ballast every year for 400.00 dollars like some other units.

[genesis]

Bluetooth You did a wonderful job on your system. UVGI has a higher kill rate in the warmer temps.I would suggest that the ballast be hooked in after the door switch on the furnace so no body gets there eyes burned by accident. The Merv 10 filter is in accordace with Penns States research on IAQ, and wont be a tremendace pressure drop on the system. About the only thing that could make it better would be to add a PCO. But you got a great start. When the bulbs are installed near the evaperator they do more good after the airflow is stopped and our testing shows that the kill rate is alot lower at 55 degrees as to 70 to 80 degrees in the returns. Best to maintain your system and keep it clean with good filtration and proper maintenance. When you get much over 400 cfm with just UVGI your exposure times are to low and it takes several in series to get that time back up. So you are probable maxed out on the CFM but with in the range for the bulbs.
Paul Roberts
Genesis Air Inc

[syntropicsystems]

Keep in mind that UV lights don't necessarily "kill" in normal use so much as they damage the dna of the microbials and keep them from being able to reproduce. The PCO (photocatalytic oxidation) systems use the UV light to activate a catalyst. The catalyst does stuff on a molecular level to oxygen and water molecules. Depending on the system, the results will vary on how they affect the environment being treated.

[TConnors]

Just curious... has anyone done any "human" studies on how the PCO process might effect a human? I saw a show on aging the other night saying how "Free Radicals" are killing us all:

How Free Radicals are Formed
Normally, bonds don’t split in a way that leaves a molecule with an odd, unpaired electron. But when weak bonds split, free radicals are formed. Free radicals are very unstable and react quickly with other compounds, trying to capture the needed electron to gain stability. Generally, free radicals attack the nearest stable molecule, "stealing" its electron. When the "attacked" molecule loses its electron, it becomes a free radical itself, beginning a chain reaction. Once the process is started, it can cascade, finally resulting in the disruption of a living cell.

Some free radicals arise normally during metabolism. Sometimes the body’s immune system’s cells purposefully create them to neutralize viruses and bacteria. However, environmental factors such as pollution, radiation, cigarette smoke and herbicides can also spawn free radicals.

Normally, the body can handle free radicals, but if antioxidants are unavailable, or if the free-radical production becomes excessive, damage can occur. Of particular importance is that free radical damage accumulates with age.

I can see 5 years from now the EPA announcing that the PCO process can fill a house (and body) with these things and kill you... I'm no scientist, so I'm probably out in left field here, but who knows...

[Carnak]

Originally posted by TConnors
The amount of water left on a coil when the compressor stops is such a small percentage of what gets removed, how much can that really effect RH?



Probably if you counted both sides of a fin, there is about 200 square feet of aluminum surface in a 4 ton evap coil so with a small droplet every square inch maybe there is several pounds of water that does not drain and re-evaporates.

At least your air handler is vertical, less prone to evaporating a standing 1/8" of water in the bottom of a horizontal drain pan.

So constant fan usually results in maintaining RH level by upwards to 10 percentage points higher than auto fan.

You are covered though, you just give your dehumidifier extra moisture to remove :)



[Edited by Carnak on 04-05-2006 at 08:52 AM]

[genesis]

TConners the free radicals can only be maintained with in inches of the PCO . The UV light activates the PCO and the cloud is right at the PCO. A catalytic converter in a car works on simular princeable using heat to activate it off the exhaust. The only thing that the free radicals will break down is hydro carbons organic compounds. A mineral wii pass through the catalysis untouched. And another thing I know carrier says they have an inhibator in their drain pans to stop the degradation on the pans. I have a hard time believing that. In 5 years we have not found any one that will provide us with a plastic molded cabinet for our small personel unit. Its like taboo even in China we have ran in to obsticals in this area. The phillips TUV bulbs which are most common in many of the UV applications in the residential market are the most intense UVC bulb on the market. And some of the larger air handler units we retro fit use bulbs up to 6 feet with 2 rows of 4 end to end. So wireing harnesses and such need to be shielded. And safety a concern.
Paul
Genesis Air

[TConnors]

And my pan area slopes and is very small, about 2" x 20" and never has any water in it (other than dampness).

Doesn't that moisture just blow into the room at the next cycle anyway? Only what runs off the coil will go down the drain, a lot would stay in the air, at least in my case it did. Before my dehumidifier my RH went from 75% to 70%, and only during a cooling cycle, then shot right back up to 75-80% with the fan off.

[Carnak]

Constant fan dries the coil. The water on the coil when the compressor shuts off will most likely never make it to the drain pan, it ends up being re-evaporated.

[Edited by Carnak on 04-05-2006 at 01:23 PM]