Goodman GKS9 Condensation Issues

[mammasan]

I have a Goodman GKS9 furnace on left horizontal install. The issue is that the propane fires for one second, shuts off, fires, shuts off and will continue to do this forever. I get no blinking LED lights.

At first, my HVAC repairman thought it could be frozen condensation pipes but we have ruled that out since it will happen when the temperature is well above freezing and warm water easily flows down the drain.

What I have determined is that the drain coming from the flue to the condensate trap will fill with water. When I pull the drain out of the condensate trap, several ounces of water will drain out of the line. The propane will then immediately fire and stay light. This needs to be repeated every 12-24 hours depending upon furnace use.

The furnace is 2 years old. Thoughts on to why the flue drain is backing up? HVAC repairman says condensate drain is pitched properly and unit appears level.

Thanks,
Mike

[second opinion]

When the condensate exits the furnace where does it go to? If you could post a picture that would help expedite answer.

[mammasan]

The condensate goes into the grey condensation trap supplied by Goodman that is hooked up to a 3/4 inch PVC pipe that drains into our plumbing. I will post a picture shortly.

[mammasan]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/74045236@N04/6674680043/

The drain tube goes from the beige elbow to the condensate trap and is the one that once removed from the condensate trap will drain several ounces of water and then the propane will lit and stay lit.

[second opinion]

The condensate goes into the grey condensation trap supplied by Goodman that is hooked up to a 3/4 inch PVC pipe that drains into our plumbing. I will post a picture shortly.

As it leaves the gray trap it has to flow free to a drain no second trap unless it goes into trap through air gap or air break

[beshvac]

You originally said it was left horizontal....the picture appears to be upflow...is that the current picture? There are certain modifications to be followed for horizontal left.....

[second opinion]

The picture needs rotating and I can not figure out how

[mammasan]

I thought it was left horizontal, I could have my terminology wrong. It is lying on its side and if you look at the cover plate it is the side to the left that is facing the floor. It is suspended from the ceiling in my attic. In the picture the blower compartment is to the right.

[mammasan]

As it leaves the gray trap it has to flow free to a drain no second trap unless it goes into trap through air gap or air break

It leaves the grey trap and flows in 3/4 pvc pipe as seen in the picture, no other trap.

[mammasan]

The picture needs rotating and I can not figure out how

The picture was taken looking directly at the furnace. In other words, the grey trap and white pvc drain should be in the bottom right of the picture.

[beshvac]

I am confused....if the picture is rotated to the left...gravity doesn't work.....

[mammasan]

I am confused....if the picture is rotated to the left...gravity doesn't work.....

Don't rotate picture, it is a horizontal install in an attic, not sure why all the confusion over the picture.

[beshvac]

Don't rotate picture, it is a horizontal install in an attic, not sure why all the confusion over the picture.

Horizontal left takes some extra modifications per the installation instructions. there have been some I worked on that took thinking outside the box to get the water to drain. it's caused by a momentary slug of water thru the inducer. No error message....but cuts the flame for a few seconds...

[hvacvegas]

I thought it was left horizontal, I could have my terminology wrong. It is lying on its side and if you look at the cover plate it is the side to the left that is facing the floor. It is suspended from the ceiling in my attic. In the picture the blower compartment is to the right.

It is left side down, horizontal. The drainage system is correct.

what ISN'T correct, is the lack of the horizontal kit. Or so it seems. Although it might not solve the main problem....

Quote from installation instructions:
"A “Blocked Drain Kit” MUST be installed for left side down
installations. The kit includes a front cover pressure switch
that must be used to protect against a blocked drain
condition. Install the front cover pressure switch per the
instructions included with the “Blocked Drain Kit”. Failure to
install the “Blocked Drain Kit” will void the warranty and could
lead to bodily injury or death."


Just noticed. One of the pressure switches hoses is incorrect...but it looks like it's been bypassed...

[mammasan]

It is left side down, horizontal. The drainage system is correct.

what ISN'T correct, is the lack of the horizontal kit. Or so it seems. Although it might not solve the main problem....

Quote from installation instructions:
"A “Blocked Drain Kit” MUST be installed for left side down
installations. The kit includes a front cover pressure switch
that must be used to protect against a blocked drain
condition. Install the front cover pressure switch per the
instructions included with the “Blocked Drain Kit”. Failure to
install the “Blocked Drain Kit” will void the warranty and could
lead to bodily injury or death."


Just noticed. One of the pressure switches hoses is incorrect...but it looks like it's been bypassed...

Care to elaborate.

The blocked drain kit from my understanding is simply the second pressure switch which is the bottom switch in the picture. For upflow installations, you only require one pressure switch as it also functions as the block drain protection (according to the installation manual and the additional horizontal installation kit manual)

[second opinion]

What is the possibility that the unit is tilted towards the back filling the collector box enough to pull a static vacuum and not allowing it to drain. If it is supported by strut and all thread rod adjust front corner down

[gravity]

i will favor that second opinion!

[chuckcrj]

Why is the igniter connected with wire nuts?

Was this furnace installed DIY?

[second opinion]

Doesn't the two wires red and white run out of the cabinet?

[chuckcrj]

Doesn't the two wires red and white run out of the cabinet?

I don't think so, looks like someone didn't have the right igniter and had to use wire nuts.

[mammasan]

I don't think so, looks like someone didn't have the right igniter and had to use wire nuts.

The unit was installed professionally when the house was built. The reason I am posting here is not to learn how to do it myself, but to get some other possibilities since my HVAC repairman isn't sure what is causing the problem.

The igniter was replaced and flame rod cleaned as that was thought to be the initial problem, hence the reason for the wire nuts I believe.

[mammasan]

What is the possibility that the unit is tilted towards the back filling the collector box enough to pull a static vacuum and not allowing it to drain. If it is supported by strut and all thread rod adjust front corner down

This is what we are leaning towards right now. We cleaned the drain tube going from the flue to the condensation trap and got a decent amount of soot (?) out of it. We have been running almost 24 hours without a problem. I want to test for one problem/solution at a time, although I suspect it is likely a combination of needing to be cleaned and needing the level to be adjusted slightly.

Thanks for all the opinions.

[second opinion]

Is this unit natural gas or propane?

[mammasan]

Is this unit natural gas or propane?

Propane. Gas pressure has been measured and verified as being correct.

[jeremyhall.tech.sc]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/74045236@N04/6674680043/

The drain tube goes from the beige elbow to the condensate trap and is the one that once removed from the condensate trap will drain several ounces of water and then the propane will lit and stay lit.

the hose connected to the rubberized white 90* flue elbow is in the wrong place. it should be moved to the bottom of the fan shroud where the yellow cap is.

also make sure the bottom of the tube in the grey condensate collector is cut of at an angle and not flush cut and jammed against the bottom of the collector.

[hearthman]

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[mammasan]

the hose connected to the rubberized white 90* flue elbow is in the wrong place. it should be moved to the bottom of the fan shroud where the yellow cap is.

also make sure the bottom of the tube in the grey condensate collector is cut of at an angle and not flush cut and jammed against the bottom of the collector.

The bottom tube is cut off at an angle in the condensate trap.

According to the manual, for a horizontal left setup, this is how it should be. It states specifically on page 22 that you do not need to connect a drain to the induced drafter blowing house. See that my picture matches the setup on page 21 for horizontal left in the manual.

http://www.alpinehomeair.com/related/Goodman%20GKS9%20Installation%20Instructions%2001. 11%20IO-300K.pdf

[second opinion]

Was it set up with a combustion analyzer? You should not be getting sooty water out of the drain.

[mammasan]

Was it set up with a combustion analyzer? You should not be getting sooty water out of the drain.

I don't know.

[second opinion]

Important to have done.

[gravity]

that unit should be setup with a combustion analyzer. if it is sooted up then this is one of your problems.

- was a propane kit installed?
- a level will tell you if its pitched backwards
- that drain line on the inducer should be moved to the bottom of inducer like someone has mentioned.

my guesses from over here are

- propane kit never installed or installed wrong
- gas pressure/combustion not set properly
- and this has caused the secondary heat exchanger to clog up and causing water to buildup which the pressure switch senses and cuts the unit off.

please call a company that knows how to use combustion analyzers and they can tell you in 5 mins if this thing is burning properly and condition of secondary heat exchanger

[jeremyhall.tech.sc]

The bottom tube is cut off at an angle in the condensate trap.

According to the manual, for a horizontal left setup, this is how it should be. It states specifically on page 22 that you do not need to connect a drain to the induced drafter blowing house. See that my picture matches the setup on page 21 for horizontal left in the manual.

http://www.alpinehomeair.com/related/Goodman%20GKS9%20Installation%20Instructions%2001. 11%20IO-300K.pdf

pull the collector box and visually check a few things .

first check the Draft fan . check for broken hub , missing fins , and turn the fan to see if it has any "walk".

second check the outlet tubes on the secondary HX.

third look to see that nothing foreign is in the collector box and HX tubes and also the inlet to the fan.

i dont care what the install manual says , place that tube where i said please.

[jeremyhall.tech.sc]

sorry i just realize this is the AOP forum , please discard my last comments and have a QUALIFIED TECH help you with my suggestions.

also never ever under any circumstances use a drill on the plastic collector box , you will strip the screws and break the flanges.

[mammasan]

sorry i just realize this is the AOP forum , please discard my last comments and have a QUALIFIED TECH help you with my suggestions.

also never ever under any circumstances use a drill on the plastic collector box , you will strip the screws and break the flanges.

Don't worry, I won't be doing any of what you mentioned. I am merely hoping to get some suggestions because my tech is unsure of what to do next. All I have done is clean the condensate drain line as he told me to do and now we are running for almost three days with no problem. I understand you want to deviate from what goodman says as far as drain placement, I'm always hesitant to do that because I don't want any warranty issues. Could I just have my tech add a third drain line where you mentioned? Thanks for the help.