Something has got to give!

[gseaquest]

Last week I was involved in replacing a compressor on a heat pump. I was confused by the events that surrounded this whole process. I think I will feel better about this just ranting to you guys. Here is the story.

Builder has a heat pump on his personal house. We often do installation for his new homes. He called in saying that his heat pump had tripped the breakers and was not working. So upon arriving at the residence the service tech entered the home, set the thermostat to heat, hooked up his gauges and smelled the refrigerant. Then he proceeded to flip the breaker and start the unit. He didn't even observe the pressures. I had to convince him to check the amp draw. He said the unit was a burned out and told the home owner he was going to need a new compressor.

This compressor was only a year old. A replacement from the original. There are three filter driers on the hp and only one was replaced during the first repair.

1 week later we came back to replace the heat pump compressor. This guy just connected his guages and proceeded to dump 12lbs of R22 straight into the grass. The refrigerant was fine as far as I could tell. There was a little discoloration in the oil that accumulated in his gauges. I replaced the compressor and the suction/liquid driers. I had to persuade him to let me clean the copper connections before brazing. Pressure check the system for leaks at 25 psi and pulled a vacuum for 20 or so min. achieving 28 in w.c.. Then without batting an eye he weighed in a 9lb charge for a system that required a 12lb 3oz charge. He charged in heating on a 68 degree day and waited for the frost line to vanish.

And this guy has the nerve to tell me that I got a lot to learn! I just read through the entire NATE core and KATES sections and wasn't much that I dont already know. This guy can't even measure microamps on a flame sensor. Ok I feel better!!!:grin2:

[AC5096]

I'm confused???

On a breaker trip for a cond. unit, the 1st thing I do is check the resistance of the compressor windings.

25 psi for leak testing? That's a bit low for me.

How do you measure a high vacuum in inches of water?

Another thing I would never do is use the old refrigerant on a compressor change out.

[2old2rock]

Besides having to work with the idiot that tells you "you have a lot to learn", (when he is obviously a hack), I would say your BIGGEST problem is.....
WHY IS THIS SYSTEM BURNING THROUGH COMPRESSORS???
Compressors don't just "burn up". There IS a reason.
If you don't find the cause of the problem, you'll be changing comps on that thing until he finds someone else to do ALL his work.

[AC5096]

Besides having to work with the idiot that tells you "you have a lot to learn", (when he is obviously a hack), I would say your BIGGEST problem is.....
WHY IS THIS SYSTEM BURNING THROUGH COMPRESSORS???Compressors don't just "burn up". There IS a reason.
If you don't find the cause of the problem, you'll be changing comps on that thing until he finds someone else to do ALL his work.


Most likely a crappy initial install!:whistle:

[tinknocker service tech]

dumped 12 lbs of refrigerant into the grass and you addmit it on line
wtf was he thinking and the rest proves he doent have a clue
makebelieve wantabe

why did you not tell him to reclaim you are also held responsable just because you were there

[gseaquest]

I just sat back and shook my head the whole time. I am getting my journeyman soon and then i will be in better shoes for negotiating my own truck or another company.

Tink, I just started at this company 6 months ago. They think I know nothing and I am supposed to learn from this guy. I am playing the field. I dont want to stir things up too much with this guy as management has plans for putting me in a truck soon. Its been about ten years since my epa certification and I am wondering where is the law stating that I am held accountable for this jack @Q!#$ doing this.

[gseaquest]

AC5096, I was confused too. Usually there is some logical approach to trouble shooting. I heard the boss call and ask why the customer needed a new compressor and this tech said the refrigerant smelled bad, the compressor was noisy and the amp draw was high. Funny thing is that I feel sorry for the guy and would like to teach him a little and maybe he could teach me some stuff that he can do right. like paperwork. Except the whole time he is trying to convince me that he knows what he is doing.

[gseaquest]

Besides having to work with the idiot that tells you "you have a lot to learn", (when he is obviously a hack), I would say your BIGGEST problem is.....
WHY IS THIS SYSTEM BURNING THROUGH COMPRESSORS???
Compressors don't just "burn up". There IS a reason.
If you don't find the cause of the problem, you'll be changing comps on that thing until he finds someone else to do ALL his work.

I did notice that the hp line at the compressor was twisted. Probably from the original replacement. I got some pics of the restriction. Also the outside coil was pretty dirty. Lots of dirt and horse hair. Poor charge from the old replacement. Lack of airflow. When i mentioned it to the home owner this guy looked at me like i was making more work for him. I hope for the home owners sake he hires another company. If it wasn't for his warranty he would be screwed. When the timing is right I will address my concerns to the upper management. Until then?

[AC5096]

AC5096, I was confused too. Usually there is some logical approach to trouble shooting. I heard the boss call and ask why the customer needed a new compressor and this tech said the refrigerant smelled bad, the compressor was noisy and the amp draw was high. Funny thing is that I feel sorry for the guy and would like to teach him a little and maybe he could teach me some stuff that he can do right. like paperwork. Except the whole time he is trying to convince me that he knows what he is doing.

If you are to learn anything, get the Hell away from this company!

[gseaquest]

If it was that easy to walk away from a job that is the only one i can get at this time I would. Timing is everything!

[JonesHVAC-R]

If it was that easy to walk away from a job that is the only one i can get at this time I would. Timing is everything!

Make sure you CYA (cover your arse)! Make your own notes if you have to. I'm assuming your infield experience for your Journeyman license is coming from them and they are possibly paying for it... just make sure that you cya because he will blame things on you. I have seen it before. Take care and try not to absorb his ignorance! ;)

[BaldLoonie]

This guy should be out of the biz.

Blowing the charge? Get a picture of him doing that and call the EPA :D

Leak check with 25 psi? Worthless

Vacuum without micron gauge? Worthless

9# on a 12# factory charge? Scary!

[Rob_in_WV]

Did I read that correctly, it has 3 filter/driers? I would think that could be causing a problem. Just a possibility maybe the system was worked on and still had moisture in it after the first compressor change out? Just some ideas.

[craig1]

WHY IS THIS SYSTEM BURNING THROUGH COMPRESSORS???
Compressors don't just "burn up". There IS a reason.

I think the reason is that changing comps makes $$$. From the OP it didn't sound like there was a definitive diagnosis of a bad compressor.

[catmanacman]

one thing about the hvac industry no shortage of idiots,on the flip side there is a lot of caring and talented hard working people also

[ironpit]

when i first got into hvac full time, about 12 yrs ago, I worked for a company located less than half-a- block from the cop shop and right next door to a lawyer office. That company kept the old a/c units for awhile then cut them for selvage. It was common to see a cloud of freon and oil spewing in the air, and I mean clouds. The cops would drive by and wave and laugh, The asphalt parking lot was so slippery the fork lift had trouble with it, could hardly move.

[gseaquest]

This guy should be out of the biz.

Blowing the charge? Get a picture of him doing that and call the EPA :D

Leak check with 25 psi? Worthless

Vacuum without micron gauge? Worthless

9# on a 12# factory charge? Scary!

My thoughts exactly! I cant wait too see what he does next. As soon as I get my license I will hopefully get my own truck. I am not that experienced but I do take a lot of pride in being a quality service tech. I have a diverse background with a strong desire to learn. I am hoping to get the chance to show them what a good tech can bring to the table. This company only has one service tech and obviously he doesn't know much or just doesn't give a rip. Either way it is nice to know others care about ethics and quality service.

[gseaquest]

This guy should be out of the biz.

Blowing the charge? Get a picture of him doing that and call the EPA :D

I do have a pic. Problem is it doesn't show him in it. Just the gauge hose laying in the grass spewing refrigerant.


Vacuum without micron gauge? Worthless[/QUOTE]

He doesn't even own a micron guage? Or wait maybe he does. Does the field piece superheat/subcool charging device do vacuum?

9# on a 12# factory charge? Scary![/QUOTE]

He couldn't get any more refrigerant into the system and the frost line vanished after the tev outside. I tried to convince him to charge in cooling and measure superheat or subcooling. Even if I could I would have had to convince him that the system needed proper examination.

Can you measure subcooling at the tev outside by gauging the pressure on the liquid line outside and the temp just before the tev?

[gseaquest]

Did I read that correctly, it has 3 filter/driers? I would think that could be causing a problem. Just a possibility maybe the system was worked on and still had moisture in it after the first compressor change out? Just some ideas.

The system had a filter drier on the suction line between the rv and the comp and two mounted inside the service panel. Trane HP model 2twb2060a1000aa

[mikeybow]

Get three or four pics of him blowing reefer and start your own business with the 30 or 40 grand the EPA gives you. you'll also have the defunct companies custumers.

[JonesHVAC-R]

Get three or four pics of him blowing reefer and start your own business with the 30 or 40 grand the EPA gives you. you'll also have the defunct companies custumers.

Daaaamn, playing for keeps there. How do you know the company he is working for condones the behavior? Just a thought...

[mikeybow]

Daaaamn, playing for keeps there. How do you know the company he is working for condones the behavior? Just a thought...

Ignorance is no excuse. Unless the company has the tech. sign a contract to follow do's and don'ts, the company is liable. Also, it's legel here to allow an uncertified tech. to use a companies certifacate, which makes the company liable in any case. Just saying COYA.

[hvac wiz 79]

id set this a$$hole straight .. but that's me. ... some guys don't care about what's right because they get the job done & the customer gets billed. at the end of the day its about money. i too have witnessed some things that make me wonder how these ppl are able to keep their jobs ...... but I also imagine many bosses who hire these crumbs have no clue as to how bad they suck. maybe some wouldn't care to know as long as the $ flows. just worry about u & what u can continue to do in order to better your craft. one day u will surpass that guy n laugh

[trouble time]

Keep your head up and learn.
You learn something new every day.
That day you learned not to be like that guy, EVER.

[KeyResults]

Kid, if it were me I'd be planning my next career move to another Company, cuz I got a feeling this one is gonna have some issues eventually. Hacks cannot hide forever. In this case though, I'd take care to cover your own butt here since some of this guys antics are criminal, and you could be jeopardizing your livelihood when the SHTF.

If I were the owner, I'd want to know this was happening. Assuming of course I'm an owner who wants to operate straight up.

Every trade has the knuckleheads, and they really piss me off.

[mikeybow]

Kid, if it were me I'd be planning my next career move to another Company, cuz I got a feeling this one is gonna have some issues eventually. Hacks cannot hide forever. In this case though, I'd take care to cover your own butt here since some of this guys antics are criminal, and you could be jeopardizing your livelihood when the SHTF.

If I were the owner, I'd want to know this was happening. Assuming of course I'm an owner who wants to operate straight up.

Every trade has the knuckleheads, and they really piss me off.

What he said. AND SOON!

[SBKold]

FYI

There is not really any reward for reporting someone to the Epa.

[jeremyhall.tech.sc]

FYI

There is not really any reward for reporting someone to the Epa.

if there were id be rich , just from watching a local grocery store chain . . . :whistle:

[tinknocker service tech]

I just sat back and shook my head the whole time. I am getting my journeyman soon and then i will be in better shoes for negotiating my own truck or another company.

Tink, I just started at this company 6 months ago. They think I know nothing and I am supposed to learn from this guy. I am playing the field. I dont want to stir things up too much with this guy as management has plans for putting me in a truck soon. Its been about ten years since my epa certification and I am wondering where is the law stating that I am held accountable for this jack @Q!#$ doing this.

i can see you are inbetween a rock and a hard palce but just so you understand if you are there when he dumps and you are watching this and working at the same time you are also held responsible if caught
just because he opened the system doesnt mean you are relieved of anything
you took the time to get you epa so dont let someone make light of it

he seems to have the i am better then anyone and dont have to follow the rules dont fall into that trap
chances are they are blowing smoke up your ass and you may want to start looking arround before you are out of luck

[corny]

Why did you change the comp and this other guy charged it ???

If that is the case.... then I wouldnt worry about it.....Id fill out my ticket stating I changed the comp and so and so did the leak test, evacuation and charging.

Then move on....

Dont report to the epa.....dont go back to the shop whining..... just move on and do your best. And by move on...I dont mean to quit..... if you need the job...stay there..... just dont pick up any bad habits and cya in situations like this.

[gseaquest]

Good point corny. The exception being that I spoke with management today and it seems that they are not fully aware of these things. The only thing that is written on the ticket is complete by the journeyman I work with. I am meeting with two members of mangement tomorrow morning to discuss the quality of workmanship and unethical practices. Wish me luck. If you are interested check out my latest thread I need some input.

[LsT-Heating]

The system had a filter drier on the suction line between the rv and the comp and two mounted inside the service panel. Trane HP model 2twb2060a1000aa
Normally on the 5 ton guys, that last one between the discharge line is a muffler, not a dryer. There's ALWAYS a 1 way dryer before the TXV, and very rarely they place a little 083 or a 105 bi on the liquid line on the right side of the service access.
I know, I know, old post, but I just had my head inside one today for a refer leak on the liquid line under the :censored: coil. Fun, remind your trainer that trane gives you X HOURS to change the comp, blowing through a comp might make your company monnies, but not if you have to eat labor and gas because this one bunks out within a year. :angel: Do it once, do it right.
Eggshells, man, and good luck

[ckartson]

vacuum for 20 or so min. achieving 28 in w.c..
28 " hg

[John Markl]

Dont report to the epa.....dont go back to the shop whining..... just move on and do your best. And by move on...I dont mean to quit..... if you need the job...stay there..... just dont pick up any bad habits and cya in situations like this.

This seems to be a recurring theme....in more than one thread....:det: