Ridiculous: 1 Trillion Dollars [Archive] - HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air & Refrigeration Discussion

skrewt

03-19-2006, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by geerair
Hey, civil wars aren't cheap these days. Besides Bush said oil revenues will pay for it. Don't you believe him?

I don't know who to believe, Bush for saying he was going to use oil revenues and then not or the dems for screaming day in and day out about it being a war for oil, then screaming we're not using it.

Just keeps the head spinning.
I suppose when you speak out of 14 sides of your mouth like the dems, you can cover everything with your spit more effectively.

geerair

03-19-2006, 09:04 PM

"Costs of any such intervention would be small."

"We don't anticipate requesting anything additional for the balance of the year."

"We are dealing with a country that can finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."

"There is just no reason that this can't be an affordable endeavor."

"If you worry just abut the cost, Iraq is very different from Afghanistan....... Iraq has oil, they have financial resources."

"Reconstruction funds can come from a variety of sources I mentioned, frozen assets, oil revenues, etc."

chillbilly

03-20-2006, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by geerair
"Costs of any such intervention would be small."

Who spends every single dime of money appropriated in this country?? That would be congress. Consequently, congress also voted overwhelmingly to finance the Iraq war and ducked out when they started eyeing their run at the White House.

"We don't anticipate requesting anything additional for the balance of the year."

Managing ANY budget requires modification to meet unexpected costs. Again, the executive branch does not spend the money, genius. Any request for extra expenditures must be approved by whom?

"We are dealing with a country that can finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."
Hence the word...'relatively'. Please repeat after me, instant gratification is not possible in everything we do.

"There is just no reason that this can't be an affordable endeavor."

It has been and still is 'affordable'.

"If you worry just abut the cost, Iraq is very different from Afghanistan....... Iraq has oil, they have financial resources."

Very true. And contrary to the "oil spin" which geer is such a faggot for, Iraq is still refining and producing it's own oil and absolutely none of it has been seized by ANY other country although I'm not sure why.

"Reconstruction funds can come from a variety of sources I mentioned, frozen assets, oil revenues, etc."

Not sure what the point of posting this quote is.

geerair

03-20-2006, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by chillbilly
Who spends every single dime of money appropriated in this country?? That would be congress. Consequently, congress also voted overwhelmingly to finance the Iraq war and ducked out when they started eyeing their run at the White House.Republican owned Congress. Bush's war, Bush spends, Republican owned Congress enables.

Managing ANY budget requires modification to meet unexpected costs. Again, the executive branch does not spend the money, genius. Any request for extra expenditures must be approved by whom?Sloppy accounting, unrealisticly optimistic forecasts, ignored expert advice, no bid contracts, bribe money, stolen money, embezzeled money, money that is just plain lost, exhorbitant prices paid for commodities. See, that kind of incompetence and monstrous waste gets you fired in the real world.

Again executive branch's war, executive branch spends. Republican owned Congress enables.

Approved? Rubber-stamped you mean by the Republican owned Congress.

Your lack of grasp of basic civics is only exceeded by your pathetic naivety.

Hence the word...'relatively'. Please repeat after me, instant gratification is not possible in everything we do.Three years does not qualify as soon in any rational person's view.

It has been and still is 'affordable'.Laughable. Apparently big numbers baffle you.

Very true. And contrary to the "oil spin" which geer is such a faggot for, Iraq is still refining and producing it's own oil and absolutely none of it has been seized by ANY other country although I'm not sure why.Unfortunately less than was produced in the Saddam era and not even one drop goes to the promised "pay for reconstruction or war costs" fund.

Not sure what the point of posting this quote is.Gee, there is a shocker.

[Edited by geerair on 03-20-2006 at 10:31 PM]

chillbilly

03-21-2006, 05:51 PM

Lookie, geer thinks he's the GAO now.

FYI the government is in the "business" of spending money and it's not relevant to party affiliation.
Besides, if some of your democratic idols could get themselves elected, they would have some degree of control in the branch that spends the money. That's their fault and IT'S their problem, and geeks like you are just pissed because your rationale is getting dropped like turtle **** in a pond.
Ronnie Reagan, where are you when we need ya'? LOL!

You think 3 years of military campaign is a long time huh?
You don't have a clue boy. Sure glad guys like you don't have my back.

geerair

03-21-2006, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by chillbilly
FYI the government is in the "business" of spending money and it's not relevant to party affiliation It is when that party owns the government lock, stock and barrel. The Republicans own the purse and have pissed it away on a vanity war that has done nothing but lead to a civil war, increased acts of terrorism while cranking out even more terrorists.

Besides, if some of your democratic idols could get themselves elected, they would have some degree of control in the branch that spends the money. That's their fault and IT'S their problem Yes, I agree. But see we are talking about now. You conservlicans certainly have a problem focusing.

Ronnie Reagan, where are you when we need ya'? LOL!I would kiss Reagan's feet if he were to come back and replace that bumbling meathead we have now.

You think 3 years of military campaign is a long time huh?No, I think three years is a long time for the Iraqis to begin paying for this mess especially since Bush and his groupies have been singing about how great and wonderful everything is going in Iraq.

You don't have a clue boy. Sure glad guys like you don't have my back.Tell us Chill, what is your military experience?

chillbilly

03-21-2006, 08:27 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by geerair
Tell us Chill, what is your military experience?

What's this "us" crap. Are you making a request for the group now?
This is the problem with self indulgent people. They expect others to help them with their indulgences.

I wouldn't give you squat, so don't bother making any requests of me.
Just suffice it to say that I have a plenty of experience with the military and I know a little about love, forgiveness and sacrifice too.
Of course, sacrifice and forgiveness are just "Christian" terms to you, so I don't expect you to comprehend what they mean or have a sense of their value.

doglips

03-22-2006, 01:38 AM

maybe its just me...but the number is so big it dont seem like a real number....like something a kid would say....just seems unimaginable.

I dont understand a lot of the things the goverment does with the $$...pork barrel projects..loans to other countries.....why we did not keep the oil in Iraq.....even the way we rebuild countries...we won its ours...Iraq should be striped..usable stuff sent back to us...and then leave....but Im not incharge.

geerair

03-22-2006, 02:27 AM

Originally posted by chillbilly
What's this "us" crap. Are you making a request for the group now?
This is the problem with self indulgent people. They expect others to help them with their indulgences. The use of "us" is mere editorial style. Nothing out of which to make a federal case. Perhaps your concepts of style are more primitive.

I wouldn't give you squat, so don't bother making any requests of me.I'll remember that.

Just suffice it to say that I have a plenty of experience with the military and I know a little about love, forgiveness and sacrifice too.Most guys here are proud of their service, as they well deserve to be, and are not hesitant to post the details. If you wish keep your military status or lack of same private, then all well and good, that is your perogative.

Of course, sacrifice and forgiveness are just "Christian" terms to you, so I don't expect you to comprehend what they mean or have a sense of their value.Those terms are not exclusive to Christianity but rather have a broad understanding in all quarters.

evildberg

03-22-2006, 12:05 PM

Geer

I want you to put a dollar figure on how much your life is worth for one and second how much your freedom is worth. Then compare that number to the importance of balancing the budget by cutting the military to next to nothing as Clinton did. Then after you do that, go talk to our soldiers who faught in Somallia and to the families of those who died in Somallia. Ask them how they feel about our then president sending our forces into Somallia to accomplish a mission but then as soon as a few of our soldiers die, just pulling everyone out. What are our relations with that country now? We have no diplomatic relations with them to this day. Only 18 of our soldiers died in Somallia but due to the presidents choice, they basically were forced to die for no reason and weren't allowed to complete their mission. 1 Trillion sounds like a lot of money sure but start putting a price on the lives of people and their freedom and it doesn't seem like so much anymore.

geerair

03-22-2006, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by evildberg
I want you to put a dollar figure on how much your life is worth for one and second how much your freedom is worth. My life? About as much as the next guy.
Freedom? Priceless

Then compare that number to the importance of balancing the budget by cutting the military to next to nothing as Clinton did. Myth and hyperbole.

Then after you do that, go talk to our soldiers who faught in Somallia and to the families of those who died in Somallia. Ask them how they feel about our then president sending our forces into Somallia to accomplish a mission but then as soon as a few of our soldiers die, just pulling everyone out. What are our relations with that country now? We have no diplomatic relations with them to this day. Only 18 of our soldiers died in Somallia but due to the presidents choice, they basically were forced to die for no reason and weren't allowed to complete their mission. So, you are in favor of sending more people to their deaths in a useless cause just to say we completed the mission?

1 Trillion sounds like a lot of money sure but start putting a price on the lives of people and their freedom and it doesn't seem like so much anymore. Explain to me how a war against a nation that hadn't attacked us, had no thoughts of attacking us, was no threat to us, has had the effect of providing a recruitment and training base for terrorists, has diverted military and intelligence assets from the real war on terrorism, has degraded the army in men and material, degraded our ability to respond to crisis situations, has isolated us from former allies, has destabilized the region, has led to a curtailment in civil liberties, has drained precious, badly needed dollars from our treasury and forced our focus from real foreign threats makes us any safer or protects our freedom?

doglips

03-22-2006, 01:02 PM

Evilberg

I served in USMC 1981-1989 including 10 months in Lebanon ...remember October 23, 1983??? That was the building I was livening in....by the grace of God I went on R&R Friday night and was off the coast of Egypt when that happened.

That was president Ragen...and I still think he was a great President.

We lost 270 people...and left....when the Marines first got to Lebanon we "evacuated" the PLO....who later cheered that the barracks was bombed.

Let me think about what we accomplished there...hummm....think think think...hummmm NOTHING!!!! we came we died we left.....and that country it has changed how....hummm actually became Muslim controlled government.

I am all for a war when we go all the way...i.e. WWII....but since then...we play nice war we go part of the way....in HVAC terms we add some R-22 and leave....I see no reason for the USA to play world police...you want baby sitters for a country call nanny 911 or other such TV shows.

Iraq..they had WMD's...so does Canada so does Mexico...we could have invaded and sent people home for the weekend. It does not take much to make Biological weapons...hospitals grow cultures when they do a test on people to find out what they got...just grow it 100x more...chemical weapons...Heat R-22 poof you got a chemical weapon....an trainee with a torch. So to say ANY country has WMD's is like saying a country has water....chemical plants..biological plants can be the size of a house and make an impressive amount of stuff

By the way..who put us incharge of the world..we have massive amounts of WMD's....who said we can have them and others cant?????

evildberg

03-22-2006, 03:15 PM

First off I want to say thank you to Doglips for his service to this country. We all apreciate it.

Quote from Doglips:

"I am all for a war when we go all the way...i.e. WWII....but since then...we play nice war we go part of the way....in HVAC terms we add some R-22 and leave...."

That is exactly what I was talking about. We have to commit to seeing it through to the end if we are going to go in the first place. Who knows how long we will be in Iraq. We stil have bases in Germany from the second world war. My guess is that we forever occupy Iraq.

The point is that if you are going to commit to a war, you better see it through reguardless of cost and make sure that the effort was worth the sacrifice. The worst possible outcome is we go into a scenario where we lose a bunch of US soldiers and then just pack up and leave. You might as well have just left them home in the first place. At that point not only was nothing accomplished but you leave the enemy pissed off and probably more hostile than they were in the first place.

So to put a cost on the potential lives saved of US and Iraqi citizens as a result of capturing and removing terrorists from positions of power isn't possible.

It also isn't possible to figure out how many Iraqi citizens would have been killed under Sadam's dictatorship or to put a price on their lives.

Nor is it possible to put a price on the freedom that the people of Iraq have and will have for generations to come under a democratic society.

So for those who think that the cost of the effort is too great, I'd say you're being quite selfish and taking for granted the freedoms we all have living here in this country.

Once again my thanks to people like doglips and the brave men and women who fight to protect the freedoms and lifestyle we all enjoy.

smokin68

03-22-2006, 05:14 PM

I agree with doglips....this "nice" war crap has got to stop. We sign all these treatys, and we're the only ones who obey them. No more mister nice guy.....declare war, go in there and kick some f-n a$$,no rules,no "we can't bomb them,they're in a mosque", go hide in a church and see if they wouldn't bomb you. Don't rebuild them either, let them rebuild themselves.

chillbilly

03-22-2006, 07:39 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by geerair
The use of "us" is mere editorial style. Nothing out of which to make a federal case. Perhaps your concepts of style are more primitive.

You wouldn't recognize your own dysfunction if it booted you in the arse. Using the term "us" is more about your attempted manipulation than style. Unfortuantely for you there are many people here that won't bite on your little baiting technique. Save the "us" for your next therapy session.
You also might want to be advised that your posts don't read anything like an editorial, rather more like a freshman lab report.

Most guys here are proud of their service, as they well deserve to be, and are not hesitant to post the details. If you wish keep your military status or lack of same private, then all well and good, that is your perogative.

You're damned right it is my perogative and my past is frankly none of your damned business. Men, far better than you have asked the same question with different results. I'm not inclined to give away personal facts, especially to people I don't like.

geerair

03-22-2006, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by chillbilly
You wouldn't recognize your own dysfunction if it booted you in the arse. Using the term "us" is more about your attempted manipulation than style. Unfortuantely for you there are many people here that won't bite on your little baiting technique. Save the "us" for your next therapy session.Chill.....Bill.

Big fuss over a two letter word.

You also might want to be advised that your posts don't read anything like an editorial, rather more like a freshman lab report.Never said they did. Editorial style and op/ed are two completely different things. You slept through grammar, I see

You're damned right it is my perogative and my past is frankly none of your damned business. Men, far better than you have asked the same question with different results. I'm not inclined to give away personal facts, especially to people I don't like. Chill.....Bill

Keep your secrets.

BTW-Do us all a favor and learn the proper use of the quote feature.

[Edited by geerair on 03-23-2006 at 01:04 AM]

chillbilly

03-23-2006, 07:15 PM

Did someone constantly tell you that you were a dumba$$ as a kid?
The typical theme you utilize in unison with your commentary on this site is a perpetual dig at others intelligence when they disagree with you.
This leads to a bunch of schoolboy, "Your mama" type atttacks that move away from anything resembling intelligent conversation.
This leads one to wonder if you have deep rooted insecurities about your intelligence, or lack thereof.
Just an observation.

Also FYI, I don't keep "secrets" from people I know and respect. If you are inclined to go out in public and tell your life story, you're a bigger girl than I thought.

geerair

03-23-2006, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by chillbilly
Did someone constantly tell you that you were a dumba$$ as a kid?On the contrary, I was routinely praised for my academic accomplishments.

The typical theme you utilize in unison with your commentary on this site is a perpetual dig at others intelligence when they disagree with you.Nah, I dig at other's intelligence, when warranted, even if they agree with me.

This leads to a bunch of schoolboy, "Your mama" type atttacks that move away from anything resembling intelligent conversation."Your Mama"? My jousting is of a much wittier caliber than that.

This leads one to wonder if you have deep rooted insecurities about your intelligence, or lack thereof.
Just an observation.Hmmmmm.......reviewing your posts, what stands out is your lack of substantive content and the almost exclusive use of emotional outbursts and name calling. Just an observation.

Also FYI, I don't keep "secrets" from people I know and respect. If you are inclined to go out in public and tell your life story, you're a bigger girl than I thought.More emotionality and name calling.